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Post by gobombersgo on Sept 27, 2019 22:46:13 GMT -6
36 goals year 1....44 year 2....30 year 3....doesn't deserve to be playing with the jets best? I beg to differ. 12 5 on 5 goals. I believe 2 were empty netters. 3rd line Tanev numbers.
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Post by jetsblu44 on Sept 28, 2019 0:17:30 GMT -6
Play him on the top line and pp....he'll put in 50+
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Post by jetsblu44 on Sept 28, 2019 0:58:21 GMT -6
36 goals year 1....44 year 2....30 year 3....doesn't deserve to be playing with the jets best? I beg to differ. 12 5 on 5 goals. I believe 2 were empty netters. 3rd line Tanev numbers. Well he didn't get Tanev dollars did he?
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Post by lenny on Sept 28, 2019 5:40:43 GMT -6
Think of a team with the second best player in the world, you give him a taste of being with the best center the team has and then pull the rug from under him and force him to play with a basically 3rd line center for the next two years. The only time Little managed to reach 30 goals was when he played winger with the Thrashers. When he gets to the Jets, despite the fact he has the two best players on his wings (wheels and Ladd) never gets close to 30 goals again (24 goals is the most he's had here).
It's a disgrace. Maurice and the Jets should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this coach to exploit this kid so they could (1) stroke the egos of Scheif and Wheeler; (2) suppress his talent to make a cap which Chevy mismanaged.
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Post by gobombersgo on Sept 28, 2019 8:03:27 GMT -6
12 5 on 5 goals. I believe 2 were empty netters. 3rd line Tanev numbers. Well he didn't get Tanev dollars did he? Deserves less.
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Post by hillman on Sept 28, 2019 12:10:38 GMT -6
36 goals year 1....44 year 2....30 year 3....doesn't deserve to be playing with the jets best? I beg to differ. If only it was all about scoring goals.
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Post by jetsblu44 on Sept 30, 2019 0:52:05 GMT -6
36 goals year 1....44 year 2....30 year 3....doesn't deserve to be playing with the jets best? I beg to differ. If only it was all about scoring goals. You need a pure goal scorer on a team. What..you want him to be a third line checker? Play him on the top line and goals will rain down. It's not rocket science. Score goals and you win games. Guess what? He can put the puck in the net!
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Post by hillman on Sept 30, 2019 9:19:57 GMT -6
If only it was all about scoring goals. You need a pure goal scorer on a team. What..you want him to be a third line checker? Play him on the top line and goals will rain down. It's not rocket science. Score goals and you win games. Guess what? He can put the puck in the net! I think that has to be balanced with his play out side of the O zone. I and I don't think the club ever suggested he should be developed as a 3rd line checker. But if you play on the 1st line you have to be defensively sound. He has been awful at that at times. Score goals and play intelligently in the other two zones and you win games. (See the team that won the cup) I watched him score goals.Just like you did. I also watched him suck in the neutral zone and in our own end. He will be on the 1st line at some point.The question is when.
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Post by hillman on Sept 30, 2019 9:28:48 GMT -6
If only it was all about scoring goals. You need a pure goal scorer on a team. What..you want him to be a third line checker? Play him on the top line and goals will rain down. It's not rocket science. Score goals and you win games. Guess what? He can put the puck in the net! Just to addess your points. The Blues don't have a "pure" goal scorer Where have I ever suggested he should be a 3rd line checker. Yes I agree he would score more . You are right ,it's not rocket science, every coach in the league strives for good defensive play to go along with the God given talents of their stars. Everybody knows he can put the puck in the net. He is phenomenal at it.
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Post by gobombersgo on Sept 30, 2019 9:50:56 GMT -6
You need a pure goal scorer on a team. What..you want him to be a third line checker? Play him on the top line and goals will rain down. It's not rocket science. Score goals and you win games. Guess what? He can put the puck in the net! Just to addess your points. The Blues don't have a "pure" goal scorer Where have I ever suggested he should be a 3rd line checker. Yes I agree he would score more . You are right ,it's not rocket science, every coach in the league strives for good defensive play to go along with the God given talents of their stars. Everybody knows he can put the puck in the net. He is phenomenal at it. He’s phenomenal at taking one timers standing still in the same spot on a powerplay. 5 on 5 he was boarder line useless offensively and defensively no matter who or what line he played on.
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Post by ekjet72 on Sept 30, 2019 15:24:24 GMT -6
I concur with Hillman and gobombersgo. Unless he shows involvement in the other half of the ice, his plus minus will be a negative. A negative number and negative to team performance and outcome.
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Post by lenny on Sept 30, 2019 17:41:39 GMT -6
Boy you guys are hard on Laine especially about the defence stuff. I'll grant you last year there was really something wrong - 24 the worst by far on the team with Little next at -12 I believe. That whole line was a mess. And Laine, as I've said it numerous times myself on this board is the worst forward by far I have ever seen in exiting his own zone. Last year I'd cringe everytime he'd get the puck in his own zone. Yet I don't remember having an overwhelming sense of that the two previous years. What went wrong after November last season?
If you look at his first two years compared to Connor he was plus 7 and plus 8 and then the bottom fell out -24. Simple math gets you at -9 for three years. Connor his first two seasons -7, +8, -7. Simple math gets you at -6. Two minus players not much difference. The latter number by Connor highlights the fact he was, for the most part playing with the big line and for him to be at -7 when Scheif was at +8 and Wheels at 0. Why was Connor at -7? Sounds like his game is defensively problematic as well considering he had the benefit of being paired with the two best players on the team. Sounds like certain line combinations when he wasn't with them but who knows.
Leaving aside +/- and heading to Corsi EV we find Laine at 48.7, 50.2 and last year 46.2. Connor: 44.8 (20 games),49.6, 49. Just so we're clear that figure represents that above 50% means the team was controlling the puck more often than not with this player even strength. Laine's three year average:48.36 and Connor 47.8. Laine wins that one. Again, Laine was forced to play with a player, Little with declining abilities as could be seen last year and then they brought in Hayes and we know how that went. Despite that the 2nd year with Little most of time but then for a good chunk Stastny he was over 50%. Connor for the most part playing with Scheif's line last year never got to 50% and from time to time the year before he had some stints with Little and Scheif but again never gets to 50%.
What about another indication of defensive involvement and just all around engagement - hitting. Laine: 80,74,70 AVE: 74.6 Connor: 1 (20 games), 18, 9. AVE: 9.3 LOL! Who's putting his body on the line roughly 8x more when he's on the ice in aggressive play? Certainly not Connor. In fact he's one of the lowest hitting players on the team. And we're supposed to believe the worst in Laine and he should be bowing and scrapping to get on the first line?. Give me a break. You've bought the propaganda and how he was being treated by Chevy and Maurice.
As I was getting into these stats I again got p$ssed off. Laine got the short end of the stick and was screwed for obvious reasons - cap and talent suppression. When he was being screwed it's clear he was rebelling and began to have an attitude problem (this comes as no suprise given his comments on the record) because he believed he should be on the first line. There is no other explanation for this fall off.This was a plus player when for the most part he played with Scheif the first year (until early March 2017) and and even better plus player the second year.
And who can argue with his playoff stats 2017-18 with Stastny 5G 7A 12 points and a plus 2. Even last year where he would have been motivated because it was the playoffs 3G 1A and plus 2. How was Connor considering he was with the big line twice 3G 7A 10 pts +2 and last year 3G 2A -1. Laine ends up winning the +/- in the playoffs.
I'm looking at last year as a throwaway junk year. Think of this. His first year Maurice was glowing about his defensive abilities. People were saying such a great scorer shouldn't you Maurice be concerned about his defensive side and you know what Maurice stated: basically he had no concerns, that in fact he plays two way hockey well because they trained them that way in Finland. His first and second year he proves that and after the trade deadline with a good center like Stastny he's plus 8. That's two years of plus hockey and with a guy as talented as he is a scorer maybe he should have stopped hitting as well because it sure seems that Connor was getting away with it.
He belongs on the first line. He proved it as one of the top players in hockey for two years until he was screwed on his last ELC year for CAP concerns.
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Post by Ric O. on Sept 30, 2019 18:58:34 GMT -6
Nice post Lenny...thanks for breaking it down. I think you've nailed every point.
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Post by Rocky Mountain Jets Fan on Sept 30, 2019 19:37:50 GMT -6
Yep I can live with that. Of course last year was horrible but it wasn't a great season for anyone I'm willing to write it off. Ehlers struggled too you could say he was mismanaged as well. Maurice's infatuation with Scheif and Wheeler and on other combination has stagnated the talent on this team. Not saying he can't play them together when they need a boost but he simply won't give it a try ever...unless of course Scheif is hurt.
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Post by shakinallover on Sept 30, 2019 19:44:55 GMT -6
Patrik was on the ice for 54 goals against. Until he decides to add a defensive aspect to his game his 30 goals don't mean much when you're letting the other team outscore you almost 2 to 1. He says he models himself after OV, well OV changed his game to play more defensively. Patrik can so the same.
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