Post by mikecubs on Jun 28, 2015 16:13:03 GMT -6
Jun 28, 2015 11:23:56 GMT -6 @hannujarvenpaa said:
Houston CSA and metro are slightly smaller than Dallas though Houston does have more fortune 1000 companies and the per capita income is higher. Houston did make a play for the Oilers in the late 90's. Supposedly they were 1 hour away from getting the team. After than Leslie Alexander the Rockets owner gave up on hockey. I just hope this group is actually real and not made up as leverage to jack up prices from other cities. I also hope that they get a decent deal to play at Toyota Center. If the arena is put in The Woodlands I predict failure.
Toyota Center has excellent site lines for both NBA/NHL. It's an awesome building.
It's not as big a deal to run downtown to the main city compare to running from the main city to the burbs generally so I don't compare it to Phoenix-Glendale. There's more to do downtown and people work downtown. If you want to take out Fort Worth from Dallas metro you'd have to take out places like the Woodlands and Baytown and maybe Sugar Land with Houston(not that I recommend doing this). Even if you partially count Fort Worth Dallas is starting with a 464,000 advantage metro wise. Remember at least 25% of Fort Worth is working in Dallas or else they wouldn't count it as part of the metro. So at least that many people are their for games on weekdays, then you have to look beyond gate like the local tv deals. Stars have a 20M dollar deal(one of the NHL's biggest) and when the Astros/Rangers went head to head for a local TV deal the Rangers kicked the Astros but(see below for explanation).
Overall Dallas teams outdraw Houston teams. Here is a comparison.
Cowboys vs. Texans (both are elite financially but the Cowboys are the NFL's most valuable team in pro sports in North America)
Cowboys
Attendance/league average/rank
2009 89,757 67,506 1 of 32
2010 87,047 67,024 1 of 32
2011 85,512 67,419 1 of 32
2012 88,531 67,632 1 of 32
2013 88,043 68,397 1 of 32
2014 90,070 68,651 1 of 32
Total 88,160 67,772
Texans
2002 69,915 66,282 9 of 32
2003 70,469 66,701 10 of 32
2004 70,649 67,442 10 of 32
2005 70,300 67,451 13 of 32
2006 70,184 68,773 12 of 32
2007 70,520 68,653 12 of 32
2008 70,421 68,205 11 of 32
2009 70,608 67,506 9 of 32
2010 71,043 67,024 8 of 32
2011 71,496 67,419 9 of 32
2012 71,665 67,632 8 of 32
2013 71,659 68,397 10 of 32
2014 71,767 68,651 10 of 32
Total 70,823 67,703
The Cowboys are the most valuable team in N. America at 3.2B dollars the Texas are 5th in the NFL at 1.85B dollars.
Verdict-win dallas
MLB
Rangers
1994 40,366 31,596 6 of 28
1995 27,582 25,286 9 of 28
1996 36,113 26,974 5 of 28
1997 36,545 28,309 7 of 28
1998 36,141 29,388 9 of 30
1999 34,681 29,234 11 of 30
2000 35,001 30,096 13 of 30
2001 34,952 30,080 11 of 30
2002 29,405 28,169 15 of 30
2003 25,857 28,178 18 of 30
2004 31,819 30,578 13 of 30
2005 31,566 30,970 15 of 30
2006 29,491 31,420 16 of 30
2007 29,796 32,819 17 of 30
2008 24,321 32,543 25 of 30
2009 27,641 30,351 17 of 30
2010 30,928 30,161 14 of 30
2011 36,382 30,366 10 of 30
2012 42,720 30,885 3 of 30
2013 38,759 30,514 5 of 30
2014 33,565 30,452 9 of 30
Total 32,996 29,926
Astros
2000 37,730 30,096 9 of 30
2001 35,880 30,080 9 of 30
2002 31,017 28,169 14 of 30
2003 30,312 28,178 11 of 30
2004 38,122 30,578 7 of 30
2005 34,627 30,970 10 of 30
2006 37,318 31,420 8 of 30
2007 37,289 32,819 10 of 30
2008 35,140 32,543 12 of 30
2009 31,124 30,351 13 of 30
2010 28,784 30,161 16 of 30
2011 25,519 30,366 19 of 30
2012 19,849 30,885 28 of 30
2013 20,394 30,514 27 of 30
2014 21,628 30,452 26 of 30
Total 30,972 30,500
Now in fairness on this one the Astros tanked the last few years to get high picks. They had the worst 3 years stretch in MLB history. If you take out the 12,13,14 season Houston averages 33,567. But if you do that you have to take out 08,09 for the Rangers when Tom Hicks was having his trouble with bankruptcy/soccer. So Texas would have a 33,763 average. Very slight edge Dallas The biggest difference between the 2 teams though is the local TV deal and this is why the Rangers win. The Astros started their own local TV station with the Rockets and it went bankrupt because they charged too high of a subscriber fee. The Astros original TV deal was 80M per year in rights fees plus 45% equity. After the bankruptcy they signed with ROOT Sports. They still get the 80M per year but lost the 45% equity. The owner says the Astros are mid market financially.
m.mlb.com/news/article/100974982/astros-president-reid-ryan-pleased-with-tv-deal
The Rangers signed a 150M per year deal with a 10% equity stake. The Rangers had no problems like the Astros.
Verdit- Edge Rangers because of the way local TV deals went
NBA
Mavericks
year-average-league average-capacity
2001-02 19,578 16,966 6 of 29 19,200
2002-03 19,913 16,887 3 of 29 19,200
2003-04 20,136 17,055 2 of 29 19,200
2004-05 20,062 17,319 3 of 30 19,200
2005-06 20,122 17,559 3 of 30 19,200
2006-07 20,351 17,759 4 of 30 19,200
2007-08 20,286 17,395 4 of 30 19,200
2008-09 20,042 17,503 4 of 30 19,200
2009-10 19,994 17,150 4 of 30 19,200
2010-11 20,102 17,317 4 of 30 19,200
2011-12 20,335 17,274 3 of 30 19,200
2012-13 20,036 17,347 2 of 30 19,200
2013-14 19,951 17,407 2 of 30 19,200
2014-15 20,188 17,808 3 of 30 19,200
Total 20,075 17,340 ------------19,200
The Mavericks have sold out EVERY game with their supposedly "smaller population". They have 104.56% capacity when you count standing room
Rockets
Year attendance league average rank capacity
2003-04 15,629 17,055 22 of 29 17,982
2004-05 16,182 17,319 23 of 30 17,982
2005-06 15,515 17,559 28 of 30 17,982
2006-07 16,543 17,759 21 of 30 17,982
2007-08 17,525 17,395 16 of 30 18,043
2008-09 17,504 17,503 16 of 30 18,043
2009-10 16,528 17,150 19 of 30 18,043
2010-11 16,191 17,317 20 of 30 18,043
2011-12 15,363 17,274 22 of 30 18,043
2012-13 16,672 17,347 18 of 30 18,023
2013-14 18,124 17,407 13 of 30 18,023
2014-15 18,230 17,808 14 of 30 18,055
Totals 16,689 17,410 ------------- 18,020
Overall the Rockets have 92.61% capacity and DIDN'T sellout during the Yao Ming/Tracy McGrady era though they do sell out these days. They do get a lot of $$$ from China, the Mavs get some too, they had a Chinese Center but he was a bench warmer and not a star like Ming.
Local TV wise the Mavs deal is outdated but not horrible. It's 13th in the league at "under 20M dollars". It expires after the 2017-18 season. The Rockets lost their equity stake in their local TV deal but for now I do believe it's still better than the Mavs.
Verdit- Win for Dallas but not as much as you think despite the much better attendance.
Overall Dallas has Houston beat at all 3 sports.