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Post by Tim on Jul 14, 2016 5:12:40 GMT -6
I think it's more of a gentleman's agreement. The idea I have is that GM's don't want their RFA's offer sheeted so they don't do it to others very often if at all. And offer sheets also hurt the offering team in the same way that free agency often does in that you have to overpay to get your guy otherwise the other team just matches. Like offering big money and term to over 30 free agents it often just doesn't make sense. It's collusion and it happens every day, and it's easier to do when a business is structured around franchises.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 6:25:02 GMT -6
I think it's more of a gentleman's agreement. The idea I have is that GM's don't want their RFA's offer sheeted so they don't do it to others very often if at all. And offer sheets also hurt the offering team in the same way that free agency often does in that you have to overpay to get your guy otherwise the other team just matches. Like offering big money and term to over 30 free agents it often just doesn't make sense. Yup. I still remember the St.Louis Blues signing RFA Brendan Shanahan in 1991. The Devils complained, and were awarded Scott Stevens as compensation. Stevens was arguably the better player. The Devils would go on to win 3 Stanley Cups, while the Blues would never challenge for the cup.
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Post by hillman on Jul 14, 2016 7:24:12 GMT -6
Lets not forget Chevy has no fear of pushing things right to the deadline.It worked with Wheeler among others.It also cost him with Frolik.Both Chevy and Trouba's agent are very tough negotiators. This very well could go down to the wire.As far as offer sheets, unless you are an elite team(not Detroit or Boston) you would be crazy to make an offer big enough to cost 4 1sts.I think the new draft lottery rules will effect that decision.Can you imagine if Trouba wasn't the game changer they thought or suffers a long term permanent injury and Winnipeg gets their next 4 lottery shots? Just a massive risk in my opinion.
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Post by djk on Jul 14, 2016 7:38:16 GMT -6
It's only 4 firsts if it's Boston because they don't have the available picks for a different offer. For other teams the compensatory picks would be lower because they wouldn't have to make that 9 million offer or whatever it was.
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Post by Grumpz on Jul 14, 2016 8:58:53 GMT -6
It's only 4 firsts if it's Boston because they don't have the available picks for a different offer. For other teams the compensatory picks would be lower because they wouldn't have to make that 9 million offer or whatever it was. We don't know that. Other teams could value Trouba as high* as Boston... if of course that was ever true. The money was better than Scheifele's, but not by much. There could be a wing nut who thinks he's worth that right now. Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice
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Post by randia on Jul 14, 2016 22:48:09 GMT -6
one of the posters on pro sports daily posted this in the hockey forum
"kurt overhardt on TSN RADIO said today that his client Jacob Trouba will not be signing a "bridge deal" with the Winnipeg Jets, he claims that the Market was set last year by the Dougie Hamilton Signing, The Flames signed Hamilton to a six-year deal worth $34.5 million, last year and Seth Jones who Overhardt called a lesser experienced comparison to Trouba, signing a 6-year $32.4 Million contract.
Overhardt said that his client expects to be paid fairly after concluding his Entry Level Contract and performing well above the Level of the majority of his peers. Overhardt noted that The Jets signed defenceman Dustin Byfuglien to a five-year contract extension with an average annual value of $7.6 million. and said that his client feels that his performance speaks for Itself.. "'
I realize this is probably a negotiation stance but this guy Overhardt seems to have a real hardass reputation after talking to some Minnesota Wild Fans about him he supposedly was going to make Neiderreiter go to the KHL if he didnt get the deal he wanted. I hope chevy is on top of this, with all this talk about offersheets I really wasnt too worried, because Chevy got Buff signed, now Im not so sure
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Post by TheDeuce on Jul 15, 2016 7:48:40 GMT -6
one of the posters on pro sports daily posted this in the hockey forum "kurt overhardt on TSN RADIO said today that his client Jacob Trouba will not be signing a "bridge deal" with the Winnipeg Jets, he claims that the Market was set last year by the Dougie Hamilton Signing, The Flames signed Hamilton to a six-year deal worth $34.5 million, last year and Seth Jones who Overhardt called a lesser experienced comparison to Trouba, signing a 6-year $32.4 Million contract. Overhardt said that his client expects to be paid fairly after concluding his Entry Level Contract and performing well above the Level of the majority of his peers. Overhardt noted that The Jets signed defenceman Dustin Byfuglien to a five-year contract extension with an average annual value of $7.6 million. and said that his client feels that his performance speaks for Itself.. "' I realize this is probably a negotiation stance but this guy Overhardt seems to have a real hardass reputation after talking to some Minnesota Wild Fans about him he supposedly was going to make Neiderreiter go to the KHL if he didnt get the deal he wanted. I hope chevy is on top of this, with all this talk about offersheets I really wasnt too worried, because Chevy got Buff signed, now Im not so sure What relevance does Buff's contract have to do with Trouba's negotiations? That's not a comparable by any measure. m.
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Post by lenny on Jul 15, 2016 7:58:03 GMT -6
one of the posters on pro sports daily posted this in the hockey forum "kurt overhardt on TSN RADIO said today that his client Jacob Trouba will not be signing a "bridge deal" with the Winnipeg Jets, he claims that the Market was set last year by the Dougie Hamilton Signing, The Flames signed Hamilton to a six-year deal worth $34.5 million, last year and Seth Jones who Overhardt called a lesser experienced comparison to Trouba, signing a 6-year $32.4 Million contract. Overhardt said that his client expects to be paid fairly after concluding his Entry Level Contract and performing well above the Level of the majority of his peers. Overhardt noted that The Jets signed defenceman Dustin Byfuglien to a five-year contract extension with an average annual value of $7.6 million. and said that his client feels that his performance speaks for Itself.. "' I realize this is probably a negotiation stance but this guy Overhardt seems to have a real hardass reputation after talking to some Minnesota Wild Fans about him he supposedly was going to make Neiderreiter go to the KHL if he didnt get the deal he wanted. I hope chevy is on top of this, with all this talk about offersheets I really wasnt too worried, because Chevy got Buff signed, now Im not so sure What relevance does Buff's contract have to do with Trouba's negotiations? That's not a comparable by any measure. m. I guess you'd have to ask the agent that right? Seems like his comments weren't challenged.
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Post by grumpy on Jul 15, 2016 9:03:23 GMT -6
one of the posters on pro sports daily posted this in the hockey forum "kurt overhardt on TSN RADIO said today that his client Jacob Trouba will not be signing a "bridge deal" with the Winnipeg Jets, he claims that the Market was set last year by the Dougie Hamilton Signing, The Flames signed Hamilton to a six-year deal worth $34.5 million, last year and Seth Jones who Overhardt called a lesser experienced comparison to Trouba, signing a 6-year $32.4 Million contract. Overhardt said that his client expects to be paid fairly after concluding his Entry Level Contract and performing well above the Level of the majority of his peers. Overhardt noted that The Jets signed defenceman Dustin Byfuglien to a five-year contract extension with an average annual value of $7.6 million. and said that his client feels that his performance speaks for Itself.. "' I realize this is probably a negotiation stance but this guy Overhardt seems to have a real hardass reputation after talking to some Minnesota Wild Fans about him he supposedly was going to make Neiderreiter go to the KHL if he didnt get the deal he wanted. I hope chevy is on top of this, with all this talk about offersheets I really wasnt too worried, because Chevy got Buff signed, now Im not so sure so Niederreiter signed a 3 year deal for 8M on September 11, 2014. Hamilton was coming off a 42 pt season and the Flames paid too much. That is cherry picking a bad contract. Brodie >>>>>>>>>>Hamilton and the Flames are paying him 4.65/yr That is like saying Trouba is better than Enstrom so he should be getting paid more. If the Jets could trade Trouba for Ryan Johanssen (or Seth Jones) that would be done yesterday. Interesting what sort options are available for Trouba outside of some mythical offer sheet. Would Trouba want to playing the KHL..... Burimstov was a happy camper being back in the NHL @ 1.55M/ year after his KHL adventure. With Kris Russell still available without any compensation it seems that the current market in the NHL kind of draws a line at 4M.
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Post by grumpy on Jul 15, 2016 12:16:18 GMT -6
Overhart was Johansen's agent who was negotiating Trouba style and he signed a 3 year bridge deal On oct 6. for 12 M. 4M cap hit with 3M 3M 6M. Means his qualifying offer will have to be 6 M.
Columbus traded him for Seth Jones so they had him for a year and a half at 3M with a 4M cap hit.
That is a way out of the Trouba holdout..... If after 2016-17 he is a clear #1 or 1A d-man then his next contract starts at 6M if not trade him to Boston or someplace where they are desperate for a top 4 D-man. Nashville was desperate for someone to be their #1C.
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Post by Ric O. on Jul 15, 2016 22:28:39 GMT -6
Everything with Trouba seems to be running so parallel to Bogosian. He's probably a better player who will get slightly more than the same contract. Then he'll get traded in a couple of seasons (at his request) and Chevy will make out like a bandit. I'm ready to watch history repeat!
In terms of negotiating and precedence, it's hard to imagine that any agent wouldn't use Enstrom's contract as some kind of benchmark. I guess it's an anomaly but Chevy must hate having to explain that one over and over again.
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Post by Grumpz on Jul 15, 2016 23:20:55 GMT -6
Everything with Trouba seems to be running so parallel to Bogosian. He's probably a better player who will get slightly more than the same contract. Then he'll get traded in a couple of seasons (at his request) and Chevy will make out like a bandit. I'm ready to watch history repeat! In terms of negotiating and precedence, it's hard to imagine that any agent wouldn't use Enstrom's contract some kind of benchmark. I guess it's an anomaly but Chevy must hate having to explain that one over and over again. Enstrom has solid advanced stats and a +/- so this forum needs to embrace the fact that he is worth his contract which I believe he is, or throw away advanced stats all together. Too many people seem to like corsi to support their case, but ignore it when it doesnt. Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice
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Post by lenny on Jul 16, 2016 5:45:17 GMT -6
Everything with Trouba seems to be running so parallel to Bogosian. He's probably a better player who will get slightly more than the same contract. Then he'll get traded in a couple of seasons (at his request) and Chevy will make out like a bandit. I'm ready to watch history repeat! In terms of negotiating and precedence, it's hard to imagine that any agent wouldn't use Enstrom's contract some kind of benchmark. I guess it's an anomaly but Chevy must hate having to explain that one over and over again. Enstrom has solid advanced stats and a +/- so this forum needs to embrace the fact that he is worth his contract which I believe he is, or throw away advanced stats all together. Too many people seem to like corsi to support their case, but ignore it when it doesnt. Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice He signed that contract before advanced stats were in vogue. His very next season (first season of the contract) his point production went down and has been sliding ever since: 2013-14: 30 pts; 2014-15: 23 pts; 2015-16: 16 pts. He was signed premised on being a point producing dman. As a Thrasher he twice topped 50 pts. Of course he gets big minutes as well. His Corsi stats are good as this article clearly shows - jetsnation.ca/2015/11/5/tobias-enstrom-gets-no-respect-around-here - premised on him playing with bigger men as he was paired with Buff for several seasons and last year with Myers and also getting PP time which he slowly has been moved away from. But he was signed as an offensive dman not as a Corsi man and to that end he has been a failure at that value. By the way, the writer of that article noted compares him to our Jets left shooting dmen past and present and when you look at the ones he is compared to you have to laugh: Clitsome, Pardy, Stuart, Chiarot,Oduya, Hainsey. Really? He thinks this actually helps Enstrom compared to a bunch of low level dmen? So yeah his Corsis are good but like all stat discussions - the devil is in the details.
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Post by Grumpz on Jul 16, 2016 9:45:24 GMT -6
Enstrom has solid advanced stats and a +/- so this forum needs to embrace the fact that he is worth his contract which I believe he is, or throw away advanced stats all together. Too many people seem to like corsi to support their case, but ignore it when it doesnt. Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice He signed that contract before advanced stats were in vogue. His very next season (first season of the contract) his point production went down and has been sliding ever since: 2013-14: 30 pts; 2014-15: 23 pts; 2015-16: 16 pts. He was signed premised on being a point producing dman. As a Thrasher he twice topped 50 pts. Of course he gets big minutes as well. His Corsi stats are good as this article clearly shows - jetsnation.ca/2015/11/5/tobias-enstrom-gets-no-respect-around-here - premised on him playing with bigger men as he was paired with Buff for several seasons and last year with Myers and also getting PP time which he slowly has been moved away from. But he was signed as an offensive dman not as a Corsi man and to that end he has been a failure at that value. By the way, the writer of that article noted compares him to our Jets left shooting dmen past and present and when you look at the ones he is compared to you have to laugh: Clitsome, Pardy, Stuart, Chiarot,Oduya, Hainsey. Really? He thinks this actually helps Enstrom compared to a bunch of low level dmen? So yeah his Corsis are good but like all stat discussions - the devil is in the details. That argument suggests that a one way player that scored 50 goals who involves into a solid 2 way player who scores 30, has a bad contract because they play differently. There are more scoring chances for the Jets them against when he's on the ice. I'll take that all day long. Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice
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Post by lenny on Jul 16, 2016 11:42:48 GMT -6
He signed that contract before advanced stats were in vogue. His very next season (first season of the contract) his point production went down and has been sliding ever since: 2013-14: 30 pts; 2014-15: 23 pts; 2015-16: 16 pts. He was signed premised on being a point producing dman. As a Thrasher he twice topped 50 pts. Of course he gets big minutes as well. His Corsi stats are good as this article clearly shows - jetsnation.ca/2015/11/5/tobias-enstrom-gets-no-respect-around-here - premised on him playing with bigger men as he was paired with Buff for several seasons and last year with Myers and also getting PP time which he slowly has been moved away from. But he was signed as an offensive dman not as a Corsi man and to that end he has been a failure at that value. By the way, the writer of that article noted compares him to our Jets left shooting dmen past and present and when you look at the ones he is compared to you have to laugh: Clitsome, Pardy, Stuart, Chiarot,Oduya, Hainsey. Really? He thinks this actually helps Enstrom compared to a bunch of low level dmen? So yeah his Corsis are good but like all stat discussions - the devil is in the details. That argument suggests that a one way player that scored 50 goals who involves into a solid 2 way player who scores 30, has a bad contract because they play differently. There are more scoring chances for the Jets them against when he's on the ice. I'll take that all day long. Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice The issue was his value at the time. That time wasn't based on great Corsi stats. It was based on his offensive capabilities. While you might argue as a Corsi player he should get maybe 4.5 now his value at 5.8 is not there.
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