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Post by mikecubs on Apr 22, 2021 8:14:09 GMT -6
Mike I agree the place is decrepit but it is so in a good way. They can milk it for a year or two until they see where/which way the world is turning. So the other unknown here is the civic election coming up in October. What candidates will come out of the woodwork and what their positions are on this aggressive infrastructure building plan Nenshi and this city council has promoted and has received conditional funding for remains to be seen. All we really know is that Nenshi is out and Farkas (sounds like a Seinfeld character, doesn't it) and Jyoti Gondek, from the current batch of city councillors are running. Farkas is the polar opposite of Nenshi on most positions and in fact was a Manning Foundation fellow. The Foundation touted minimalist government structure and spending. So if this can't be sorted out and Farkas wins there will be a strong push back on the $5B spending Nenshi managed to get approved. And this includes the new arena. We also need a new stadium. McMahon reminds me of the old Winnipeg Stadium and that's not a good thing! It is however indestructible, so they can dance around the need issue for a good 10 years, if the CFL survives COVID that is! There's 3 types of catagories for old arenas/stadiums 1. The have charm/built ahead of their time and were able to be cleverly renovated and will likely last forever. Examples: Wrigley Field, Fenway Park, Dodger Stadium, Lambeau Field, Madison Square Garden(if the location doesn't do it in being built on top of Penn Station) 2.Had a ton of charm but couldn't be renovated to modern standards because of lack of size, design flaw etc... Examples: Boston Garden, Chicago Stadium, Montreal Forum, Maple Leaf Gardens, Olympia Stadium, Tiger Stadium, Comiskey Park 3. Pure crap/not worth saving Examples: There's tons and tons like Oakland Coliseum, every cookie cutter baseball park, most of the 70's arenas etc... The Saddledome would fall in this category. The Calgary arena must be built. Cut out all the other spending stuff if needed. I do agree it's too much at once overall. With the arena cut stuff that isn't needed in design. It's time to get it done. The dome sucks and if Calgary did relocate the NHL would never give them another team ala Quebec. The NHL is after the bigger us TV deal and they just did get a nice deal from espn. Forget the CFL stadium too. No offense to anyone but the Flames are realistically the only team in town in a major sport.
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Post by mikecubs on Jun 27, 2021 5:12:25 GMT -6
Calgary city council approves confidential change to arena deal with Flames ownershipCity council has approved changes to certain aspects of the deal with the Calgary Flames ownership to build the new events centre, but details on exact changes have not yet been publicly released. The arena project has been paused since April as both the City of Calgary and the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation worked through a “difference” in the budget estimates compared to the arena that was designed. Sources told Global News at the time of the pause that Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corporation had requested more land for the project, and the removal of the Calgary Municipal Land Corporation as project manager. Global News also learned the budget difference was around $70 million.In a closed door session on Tuesday evening, city council discussed the changes and emerged with several confidential recommendations. One of the items approved was a reconsideration of the previously agreed upon $550-million arena deal that was signed in 2019.It required 10 votes in favour and council voted to approve the reconsideration 11-3, with councillors Druh Farrell, Jeromy Farkas and Jyoti Gondek opposed. According to Mayor Naheed Nenshi, the part of the agreement up for reconsideration isn’t a monetary issue, but there have been some cost escalations.“Given the materials cost, construction escalation, given some small changes to the program for the events centre, the costs have gone up,” Nenshi said. “Ultimately, we’ve got to figure out what we want to build here while staying in the context of the previous agreement that the city had made. It’s not about the city pouring in a lot more money.” Construction on the project was set to begin in August with a completion date in 2024, which Nenshi said will likely be delayed.Ward 11 Councillor and mayoral candidate Jeromy Farkas is calling for the information discussed behind closed doors to be made public as the agreement includes $275 million of public money to fund the Saddledome’s replacement. Farkas said he believes the “secrecy” around the arena deal is undermining support for the project. “Sure, council can get their advice, they can do their negotiating behind closed doors,” Farkas said. “But once a decision is made, and to be crystal clear a decision has been made in council’s secret meeting this week, the public deserves to know what that decision was.” Nenshi confirmed that when an agreement is reached, there would be a public debate amongst councillors, which could happen as soon as the combined meeting of council on July 5. Calgary Municipal Land Corporation, the city-owned agency in charge of the arena, said it didn’t have any additional information to share about the project on Thursday. “CMLC isn’t part of the negotiations, as those are held between the two partners, but we are supporting both in this process and finding the best path forward,” CMLC spokesperson Clare LePan said in a statement to Global News. LePan added that the project will stay paused with further information on its status being shared at the “appropriate time.” A change to the agreement between the city and CSEC isn’t surprising for Concordia Univeristy economics professor Moshe Lander. In an interview with Global News, Lander said it isn’t uncommon for large projects with public funding to undergo renegotiations and delays. “This is not at all surprising, it’s completely predictable,” Lander said. “The idea of cost overruns, renegotiations, conflicts of interest between the various parties that have stakes in the new arena deal — that’s common throughout many cities.” Nenshi said he is still adhering to the terms of the agreement signed in 2019, but said the biggest factor for him is “public money must have public benefit.” globalnews.ca/news/7977566/calgary-new-arena-deal-confidential-change/
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Post by mikecubs on Jul 15, 2021 7:13:40 GMT -6
Arena up to $60M over budget: city officialsPlans for Calgary’s new arena are currently running as much as $60 million over the $550-million deal, according to city officials. City council spent several hours behind closed doors Monday evening, and one of the topics discussed was the negotiations around the event centre planned to replace the Saddledome. The project was expected to start construction this summer, but progress has been paused since April due to budget issues. There are still few public details about the confidential talks between the City of Calgary and the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corp. (CSEC), the Flames’ ownership group. But planning and development general manager Stuart Dalgleish told council late Monday that current cost estimates are putting the project in the range of a $50-million to $60-million overrun. “We still continue to work on the budget and are looking to find savings,” he said.Under the existing deal, there’s a set process for dealing with possible cost overruns. It’s a complex chain of events where the city and CSEC have to first consider using contingency funds, reducing the project’s cost and splitting the extra costs 50/50. If all that fails, either the city or CSEC can opt to contribute up to $25 million extra, and the other partner has to chip in half that amount. Dalgleish said the current budget estimate stems from requirements for the interior and exterior design, as well as the public realm around the facility. Under the terms of the event centre deal, the city and CSEC equally split the capital costs to build the arena, but a condition of the city agreement was a public return on investment — creating part of the planned “cultural and entertainment district” in the surrounding area for community use. “We have been doing considerable work to have a design that meets the principles set out by both parties, the city and CSEC. That process has resulted in the current estimate we have,” Dalgleish said. When the deal was approved, there was also talk about a possible second, smaller facility on the event centre lands, but Dalgleish said it’s been determined that there isn’t room for it. Mayor Naheed Nenshi said that rink wasn’t a formal part of the 2019 agreement, and if it were to be built, it was to be entirely CSEC’s cost. Any change to the deal council approved back in 2019 would require a public council vote, and it would be a reconsideration, which requires at least 10 votes to pass. Any possible changes to the arena design and budget have yet to be finalized, and council has not been asked to approve putting additional public money into the project. Council approved one confidential recommendation as a reconsideration last month, but what that is hasn’t been disclosed. Nenshi said it wasn’t a monetary issue, and any official change to the agreement would be discussed in public. Part of the reason for cost escalation is the cost of inflation for raw materials as multiple countries roll out infrastructure stimulus packages to boost the economy after more than a year of pandemic restrictions. Officials say that’s affecting all the capital projects underway in Calgary. If the city were to put more money toward the event centre, that must be subject to a public discussion. Council will discuss the arena again at its July 26 meeting. Arena politics return Council members emerged from their closed-door session past 10 p.m. Monday, and discussion on the arena was heated. The three councillors running for mayor — Jeromy Farkas, Jyoti Gondek and Jeff Davison — were in council chambers in person. Conflict erupted almost immediately. Farkas began quizzing city staff about how much the arena is over budget, and he suggested that the city’s negotiation team had “agreed to conditions that would keep our council in the dark.” Nenshi responded that is “not in any way true,” and Davison and Gondek accused Farkas of “gaslighting.” Davison said council agreed not to negotiate in public, and the 2019 deal still hasn’t been changed. Gondek said the Ward 11 councillor’s statements make it harder for Calgarians to understand what’s going on. “This was intended to do nothing short of breach a closed-session meeting and make someone look like the hero who is saving Calgarians from a project,” she said. “The rest of us are sitting here wondering what we’re supposed to say when we were told that those were closed-session conversations. Should I make up some stuff too?” Brad Field issued a statement saying an urgent meeting should be called to get “some sunshine to disinfect what clearly has been shown to be a poorly managed process by the council architects of the deal.” And Jan Damery said the accountability that Calgarians expect on the event centre project has been lacking, and she wants to see a full explanation of the difference in estimated costs today versus in 2019. Gondek told reporters Tuesday that she stands by her “yes” vote to the arena deal in 2019, but if the deal changes to remove “certainty” about urban design or require more public money, she’s “not a fan of it.” But she repeated that decisions haven’t been made, and council isn’t keeping secrets from Calgarians. In an interview, Farkas decried council “secrecy” over the project, and said it’s undermining support for getting it built. “Given that a deal is a deal, and we had a deal, I think it’s well past time to let Calgarians in.” calgarysun.com/news/local-news/arena-up-to-60m-over-budget-but-no-official-ask-for-extra-city-funding-yet/wcm/44b3be52-59b2-4e85-a9b8-63607353e196
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2021 7:57:37 GMT -6
City council OK's terms to restart arena work after months on pause CSEC agreed to take all the additional cost overruns, capping the city's funding for the building itself at $587.5 millionCalgary’s plans to replace the Saddledome will move ahead after more than three months on ice, as city council approved new terms Wednesday to overcome a budget increase. The results of months of confidential negotiations between the city and the Calgary Flames ownership group were publicly released this week, revealing that the cost overruns clause from the deal for the new facility had been triggered. That means the city and the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corp. (CSEC) split an additional $25-million contribution to the building, adding up to a new cost of $575 million. But creating the Saddledome’s replacement was set to be even costlier, with the current price tag estimated at $608.5 million. City manager David Duckworth told council Wednesday that change led to lengthy talks to find a solution. City, Flames to each put extra $12.5M toward arena, but Flames take any more cost overruns Discussions followed about changing or removing design elements from the event centre to cut the budget. “We were pretty comfortable with a $575-million facility, but our partners (CSEC) were uncomfortable with that,” Duckworth said. “There were fundamental pieces in their mind that were missing, which is why we had conversations about city council, the city, is very unlikely to put more funding in here, so we have to figure out a way forward.” He said talks explored getting rid of a planned 200-stall parkade to save $10 million, or scrapping a balcony with roughly 300 seats to save about $2.5 million. “At the end of the day, (CSEC) basically said, if you’re looking at comparable facilities and if you look at our fundamental principles, these things still need to be in.” As a result, CSEC agreed to take all the additional cost overruns, capping the city’s funding for the building itself at $587.5 million. But the city is also agreeing to let the organization hire its own development manager, while the city’s arm’s-length development authority Calgary Municipal Land Corp. will no longer oversee the project.CSEC’s facility fee will also increase from eight per cent to nine and a half per cent for non-sporting events to help cover the extra costs. The city’s two per cent share won’t change. All in, the city’s costs add up to $312.9 million, including the event centre capital costs, the bill for demolishing the Saddledome and up to $10 million for other work such as flood mitigation. The 2019 deal also provided CSEC land options in the area, on top of the land where the event centre will be built.Council also approved a request for officials to craft a transportation and event management plan for the area, and officials will be back with a budget request for that work in the fall. Duckworth said there was some urgency around the council decision. The plan is to execute the new agreements Thursday to make sure a development permit application can be submitted next week, leading to the start of construction in January.“Otherwise, we lose a whole playing season, and our partners, CSEC, are adamant that these dates need to happen now.” After four hours of discussion Wednesday afternoon, Mayor Naheed Nenshi said he believes the adjusted deal is an improvement. “Much to my own surprise, we came up a better deal than what we signed in 2019,” he said. “I’m actually quite pleased with where we ended up. As hard as this was, I have to say that our partners on the other side (CSEC) made significant concessions. The fact that they are now in for more than 50 per cent of the cash costs, as well as they are undertaking the risk, this is a big deal.”Other councillors didn’t agree. Coun. Jyoti Gondek said it’s “laughable” to think council could have had enough time to adequately consider the cost implications of the changes when they emerged just two days ago. “It’s my faith in CMLC that led me to vote yes (in 2019),” she said. “With their leadership removed from this project, I can’t support it anymore.” Coun. Jeromy Farkas added that “too many corners are being cut” and without CMLC directly involved, Calgarians don’t have a good enough guarantee that the facility will be an event centre, as promised, and not just a hockey rink. But Coun. Jeff Davison, who chaired the event centre assessment committee that helped shepherd the process leading up to the deal, said voting no now is tantamount to “asking Calgarians to give up on themselves.” “Now’s the time to stick to our guns as we lead a massive recovery,” he said. New design renderings of the building were also shown for the first time Wednesday — previous illustrations that have circulated for two years were just possibilities for what it could look like. The design isn’t yet finalized, but that’s expected to happen soon. calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/city-council-oks-terms-to-restart-arena-work-after-months-on-pause
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2021 8:09:48 GMT -6
By my count the public will be paying $312.9M of the total $608.5M cost 51.42%
In Edmonton the public paid $323.2M of $613.7M of the total cost 52.43%
So basically it's the same deal.
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Post by ekjet72 on Aug 7, 2021 9:04:43 GMT -6
Edmonton's costs are final. We haven't even put a shovel in the ground yet. Let's talk in 3 years!
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2021 16:04:08 GMT -6
Edmonton's costs are final. We haven't even put a shovel in the ground yet. Let's talk in 3 years! That's true but fortunately the Flames are now responsible for all cost overruns now under the revised deal. This is what the city should have put in the deal in the first place ala Milwaukee. When they built the Bucks new arena the cost was originally $500M with the bucks/public going 50-50%. Final costs were $524M. The Bucks were responsible for all cost overruns so they had to pay the final $24M. This is a standard sports stadium subsidy deal. No better no worse. As studies show there will be very limited economic impact like all stadium/arena deals but if you want a big league franchise in a smaller city this is what you have to do. But it's not an Olympic Stadium debacle either. It is what it is. If you don't do this and the Flames leave hockey isn't coming back to Calgary due to the NHL geographic civil war even if a future arena is built ala Quebec City. Biggest risk/what gives me pause is if there keeps being new covid variants that can get past the vaccine/future booster shots.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2021 16:08:44 GMT -6
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 23, 2021 3:20:22 GMT -6
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Post by mikecubs on Nov 7, 2021 3:59:56 GMT -6
More new Calgary arena renderings show street-level viewsAdditional images of Calgary’s future new arena are publicly available as the project waits to clear a final hurdle before construction. The building still has yet to get approval at planning commission, but it’s set to be up for discussion before the end of the year. There’s still an opportunity for the public to comment on the Saddledome’s planned replacement, and the commission has to sign off on the plan before building permits are issued. The arena is estimated to cost $608.5 million, with the city contributing $287.5 million. That amount has been officially capped, and the Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corp., which owns the Flames, will cover the remaining share plus any possible cost overruns. The latest images show more detail about what the street-level activity around the “event centre” could look like. City officials and members of the previous city council that signed off on the project said they don’t want the arena to be an impenetrable box that’s dropped in the middle of Victoria Park, and the intention is to integrate the building into plans for a larger “cultural and entertainment district” that attracts people with businesses and gathering spaces. The renderings show a sports bar and a restaurant integrated directly into different sides of the building, and show an example of how public art could be placed outside the building. Several images also show how graphics with fireworks or Stampede-style imagery could be projected onto the ribbon-like facade that wraps around the building. International design firm HOK and local company Dialog are responsible for designing the new building. Once it’s up and running, the Saddledome will be demolished. After building permits are issued, the plan is to begin construction early in 2022. Work was supposed to start this year, but the project had to be paused for months amid budget issues. In the end, new terms were hammered out, including a defined maximum for the city’s costs. City wholly owned subsidiary Calgary Municipal Land Corp. was also removed as project manager, and CSEC moved ahead with hiring a different firm of their choosing. calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/more-new-calgary-arena-renderings-show-street-level-views
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Post by mikecubs on Nov 7, 2021 4:01:23 GMT -6
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Post by mikecubs on Nov 19, 2021 6:23:09 GMT -6
Planning commission approves permit for Calgary's new arena after hours spent delving into detailsThe Calgary planning commission drilled into the design plans for the new arena Thursday night as the project arrived at one of the final hurdles before construction. T he city planning body unanimously approved the development permit for the project, but there’s also a list of more than 70 conditions that must be met before work on the $600-million replacement for the Saddledome can officially go ahead. Coun. Raj Dhaliwal, one of the council members of planning commission, was absent for the vote. The commission spent several hours Thursday evening asking questions and debating until nearly 10 p.m. Construction on the project is set to start early in 2022.T he arena’s total cost is estimated at $608.5 million, with the city’s contribution capped at $287.5 million. The Calgary Sports and Entertainment Corp., which owns the Flames, will cover the remaining share plus any possible cost overruns. City wholly owned subsidiary Calgary Municipal Land Corp. was initially slated to be the project manager, but they were removed earlier this year so CSEC could hire a firm of their choosing. Illustrative renderings of the new building have been released over the last few months, with architecture firms Dialog and HOK pairing up to design it. There will be a parkade on the southeast corner, and a large plaza on the southwest corner. The arena — or event centre, as the city terms it — is intended to be one of the anchors of a future “culture and entertainment district” in east Victoria Park. While the Saddledome looms over concrete parking lots, city council is hoping the new event centre will be better integrated into its surroundings, with retail, restaurants and outdoor gathering space helping to draw people to the area. A city report recommending the project for approval describes a “high-quality pedestrian realm” around the building, including expanded sidewalks, landscaping and a large plaza at the southwest corner. The new arena will seat about 18,320 for hockey games, 17,500 for end-stage concerts and more than 20,000 for centre-stage events.
Coun. Raj Dhaliwal questioned how the building will reflect the culture of Calgary as it replaces the iconic but worn-down Saddledome. City chief urban designer David Down said the new building reflects a different philosophy than the 1980s-era Saddledome. “This was seen as an integral part, a catalytic part of that neighbourhood development,” he said. “Whereas the form itself isn’t as literal as a saddle for Cowtown, it’s really more about progressive, up-to-date, highly finished, integrated building that reflects a new attitude toward building new inner-city neighbourhoods.” Dialog senior architect Doug Cinnamon told the commission there are elements in the building intended to reflect the surrounding environment — a metal “ribbon” wraps around the top of the event centre with a design meant to subtly suggest the sky and the Bow and Elbow rivers. Projection cameras would also be pointed toward the ribbon so programmable moving images could be put on the facade. “We worked really hard to promote transparency,” Cinnamon said, adding large windows will make the city skyline visible for people standing inside the building, while people passing by will be able to see what’s happening from outside. “So if you’re walking along 5th Street during an event and we’ve done our job, you’ll be able to see through the glass and see people who are enjoying an event on the inside of the building,” he said. City officials also said the building will aim to be carbon neutral by 2035, arriving at the target council specified in the climate emergency vote earlier than the deadline of net-zero by 2050. Citizen commissioner Chris Pollen said while the vision of the building is an event centre rather than just a hockey arena, he questioned whether this had been achieved. The architects said the building operator, CSEC, wants to see hundreds of events held in and around the building year-round, and that will go well beyond hockey games. calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/planning-commission-approves-permit-for-calgarys-new-arena-after-hours-spent-delving-into-details
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Post by mikecubs on Nov 19, 2021 6:24:29 GMT -6
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Post by ekjet72 on Nov 19, 2021 10:49:28 GMT -6
Mike thanks for my update on the Arena! LOL. I learn more from your timely updates than I do from local media...mainly because I don't read the Herald online. Looking at the history of how this has proceeded it will be interesting to see if they can reach the goals of establishing a go to entertainment economic zone or as some predict a no go area once the games and concerts are played. There is a significant risk of this happening given what is going on down there right now. Which is not much, and what is, involves drugs and violence.
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Post by mikecubs on Nov 19, 2021 16:44:06 GMT -6
Edmonton did an entertainment district and made a ton of money off it so I don't see what the Calgary owner wouldn't want to copy that. They may wait though until the pandemic is completely gone. They will probably just move the drugs/violence to another part of the city. The outside of the arena isn't the best looking which is disappointing so my guess is they were always planning for stuff to surround it.
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