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Post by TheDeuce on Nov 3, 2011 14:47:05 GMT -6
Interestingly enough, the lefties were lauding the ease of which debt was being offered to sub-prime clients. They bemoaned the difficulty which their 'poor, disempowered' fanbase had in securing loans to pay for houses and lifestyles that they couldn't afford. Fine, the banks that were reluctant to give loans to those individuals gave out said loans, and shockingly, those loans were defaulted on. Now it's the banks' fault that these people defaulted on their loans? The Canadian banking system survived by ensuring that only those who can afford to service their mortgages were issued mortgages and requiring meaningful savings and down payments before such mortgages were provided. m. I witnessed this first hand while living in PA the last 6 years. Two personal friends (families) I knew were getting in over their heads. If I could tell it was going to wind up in foreclosure (I'm not a financial expert), how could the banks not see this! Both families took $$$ from credit cards for a down payment! Within 2 years both houses were foreclosed on. Living in PA - Prince Albert of Pennsylvania? m.
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Post by labatt50 on Nov 3, 2011 14:56:24 GMT -6
My reply to each point: "Counterpoint - the presence of a union in any workplace does not ensure the well-being of the workers in said workplace. I spent enough years as a shop steward with UFCW to become oh-so-disillusioned with what unions are all about."
That is true, the presence of a union does not ensure well-being, but it certainly offers a better chance than being non-unionized. "However, why shouldn't Walmart be able to close any of their stores for any reason they like? It's their business, it's their operation, it's their decision to keep a store open or closed. Given the damage that unions have done to the auto industry and the public sector, it's no wonder Walmart would want to do what it can to keep the union powers at bay."Like I said, what WalMart did was totally legal. But to say that unions have done damage to the auto industry and public sector in Canada is laughable. In the US, the unions are often derided for what their members receive in benefits, but an important distinction is that in the US, there is no universal healthcare, so employers are often times left on the hook for that. The big three automakers in the US have even gone on the record stating that the system is the problem, not worker demands. www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aGI_mzsR3Lz8&refer=home"As far as the repeal of the Glass-Stegall act goes, the connection to said repeal and the economic meltdown is a post hoc ergo propter hoc argument. The repeal didn't mandate the wild increase in sub-prime mortgage offerings, the wholesale default of which was a primary cause of the crisis.
Interestingly enough, the lefties were lauding the ease of which debt was being offered to sub-prime clients. They bemoaned the difficulty which their 'poor, disempowered' fanbase had in securing loans to pay for houses and lifestyles that they couldn't afford. Fine, the banks that were reluctant to give loans to those individuals gave out said loans, and shockingly, those loans were defaulted on. Now it's the banks' fault that these people defaulted on their loans? The Canadian banking system survived by ensuring that only those who can afford to service their mortgages were issued mortgages and requiring meaningful savings and down payments before such mortgages were provided."I think you just proved my point. In Canada, our banking sector is highly regulated (justifiably), while the American system is not (anymore). Even when Dodd-Frank was passed last year, it had absolutely no teeth (because the Democrats are just as corrupt and beholden to the banking lobbyists as the Republicans are www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/29/dick-durbin-banks-frankly_n_193010.html). Which brings us back to the point of this tread: the whole point of the Occupy movement (in the US, at least) is to ensure that there is actual democracy, not a system that is rigged so that two political parties are wholesale subsidiaries of corporate interests, instead of the citizens that they are supposed to be representing. In my opinion, the most important battle will be enacting a constitutional amendment that will eliminate corporate personhood (exemplified in the Citizens United v FEC case). www.wolf-pac.com/The economic debate we are having is a valuable one, and each side has valid points to make, but I think that we would all agree that Canada (and the world) was in much better shape pre-neoliberalism than we are right now.
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Post by selanne405 on Nov 5, 2011 20:08:14 GMT -6
Good post labbat, best point you make though is that democrats are also corrupt. Dont get me wrong conservatives/republicans are also corrupt crooks but for some reason people now a days (particularly younger people) seem to believe that all conservatives are nazis while the liberals are the greatest people in the world.
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Post by labatt50 on Nov 6, 2011 11:13:41 GMT -6
Good post labbat, best point you make though is that democrats are also corrupt. Dont get me wrong conservatives/republicans are also corrupt crooks but for some reason people now a days (particularly younger people) seem to believe that all conservatives are nazis while the liberals are the greatest people in the world. Very true. Obama in particular is the biggest corporate sellout in Washington. He caves in on every whim of the GOP, and then tries to sell it as "change". And then, the right wing tries to paint him as "socialist" and "radical". Who the bigger phonies are, I'll never know.
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Post by Tim on Nov 6, 2011 11:36:50 GMT -6
Obama Isn't that short for Televangelist!
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Post by selanne405 on Nov 6, 2011 16:25:19 GMT -6
Good post labbat, best point you make though is that democrats are also corrupt. Dont get me wrong conservatives/republicans are also corrupt crooks but for some reason people now a days (particularly younger people) seem to believe that all conservatives are nazis while the liberals are the greatest people in the world. Very true. Obama in particular is the biggest corporate sellout in Washington. He caves in on every whim of the GOP, and then tries to sell it as "change". And then, the right wing tries to paint him as "socialist" and "radical". Who the bigger phonies are, I'll never know. I think the hype around Obama was the combo of a few things. First the long awaited and anticipated departue of Dubya and the fact that no matter who was elected it would be hard for them to do any worst, Obama is a great speaker and can turn dogsh!t into diamonds better than most politicians and all the celebrities jumped on board the Obama wagon and suddenly it was this huge craze.
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Post by NHLWinnipeg on Nov 9, 2011 12:59:17 GMT -6
It looks like most of the camps in Canada are in the process of being evicted.
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Post by selanne405 on Nov 9, 2011 19:45:01 GMT -6
Brodbeck from the Sun wrote a BS column about the whole thing where he basically said they should be sent home because there preventing other people from using the park.
The Sun has always been a mouthpiece for conservative propaganda but I found his argument in that particular column to be funny. The people have the right to protest peacefully and by trying to deny them that I think there just going to inspire them to take it to the next level.
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Post by Hannu Smail on Nov 9, 2011 20:08:48 GMT -6
To balance out the "conservative propoganda", just read some of the editorials in the Free Press. Then you'll be good to go.
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Post by selanne405 on Nov 9, 2011 20:38:04 GMT -6
To balance out the "conservative propoganda", just read some of the editorials in the Free Press. Then you'll be good to go. Thats an editorial not the same thing. The WFP may be guilty of bias at times but no where near the same level as the Sun.
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Post by Hannu Smail on Nov 9, 2011 20:47:30 GMT -6
To balance out the "conservative propoganda", just read some of the editorials in the Free Press. Then you'll be good to go. Thats an editorial not the same thing. The WFP may be guilty of bias at times but no where near the same level as the Sun. One Francis Russell column is worth a week of Broadbeck.
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Post by JimmyMann on Nov 9, 2011 21:56:52 GMT -6
I haven't really followed this whole occupy thing going on. No disrespect to anyone involved .
but it got me to thining.....Glendale, Arizona would be a perfect place for this event.
Location,location, location
1. Lots of empty spaces at jobing.com arena parking lot to set up a tent village. even a more permanent one.
2. A large mostly empty building next door called jobing.com arena, a perfect place to use the washroom when nature calls.
3. Cheap food and drink - jobing.com has it all $1.00 hot dogs and pop. Even $1.00 beer for those wanting to take a break from all the seriousness going on.
4. Politicians - November 10 will be John MCain bobblehead night at jobing.com so the occupy group could get nice and close up with the Senator.
On second thought, I guess if the whole occupy thing is to protest greed, perhaps jobing.com is not the best place to hold the event or..... is it the poster child of greed.
If I have missed the mark sorry for trying to add a llittle humour.
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Post by Tim on Nov 9, 2011 22:07:13 GMT -6
These people all must have pretty flexible jobs so they are all able to participate in this great event!
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Post by JimmyMann on Nov 9, 2011 22:11:40 GMT -6
These people all must have pretty flexible jobs so they are all able to participate in this great event! Using up vacation time.
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Post by Tim on Nov 9, 2011 22:12:46 GMT -6
These people all must have pretty flexible jobs so they are all able to participate in this great event! Using up vacation time. That's got to be it, how silly of me!
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