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Post by frozenpondblue531 on Nov 14, 2011 15:38:33 GMT -6
Of all the moves and expansions over the past 20 years, the Avs are by and far the biggest success, both on and off the ice. The team has huge local support, and still sells very well, even with abysmal on-ice performance. Hockey is big in Colorado. Always has been. I'm really glad that Colorado got a team back, it's just very unfortunate that Quebec had to lose one. In a perfect (and hopefully near) NHL, both teams would exist. Sidenote: I'd say that Minnesota would be a close second as far as "new teams". Don't take the word of one hack sports writer as fact about what's happening in Denver. We've all read plenty of negative stuff about the Jets in the Sun. I don't really agree on a number of levels.
Denver was handed an all-star team which won the Cup right off the bat and was great for years and included several HOF players. They've hardly been "abysmal" through a rebuild which has brought in a lot of good young promising players. The low points are just a natural fact of life for most teams. Attendance suffered considerably as soon as the team was no longer one of the best.I'd say Minnesota given their on ice performance has been more impressive. They have had an abysmal team. The test of a market is when it isn't a top team imo. Hockey as a sport really isn't big in most of the USA, although some NHL teams have great local/regional support. It certainly isn't that big of a deal in Colorado. If your measuring stick is Canada there really isn't anywhere in the USA where the popularity of hockey is comparable. You might say it comes close in pockets of Minnesota, Michigan, Massachusetts and New York, but even there hockey is one of several popular sports and not quite as big a deal as it is in most of Canada. The Colorado Avalanche own the longest sellout streak in history - 487 - spanning ELEVEN years from 1995 to 2006. That's such an albatross - I don't care if the team went undefeated for 11 years. Give credit where credit is due. Colorado owns the longest sellout streak in minor league hockey, in addition to the NHL. The Eagles have sold out over 300 games - each game they have played in their in 8+ season history. Colorado's third hockey team - Colorado College - is historically one of the better drawing colleges in the States too, even in down years for the team. This year, they have sold 99.0% of their seats at well over 7,000/game. Colorado's fourth most popular team - Denver - also historically draws well. This year, they have sold 95% of thei seats at a 6,000+/game clip. There are ongoing efforts to bring a fifth hockey team (and third professional hockey team) to the state in Colorado Springs. The growth in youth hockey over in Colorado in the last 15 years was exponential. If this state doesn't satisfy your requirements for a "success" and "wasn't a big deal" - given the above numbers - the problem is where the beholder is setting the bar. That's 4 teams drawing a combined 35,000 per game in an average year.
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Post by Lions67 on Nov 14, 2011 15:43:56 GMT -6
If Colorado is such agreat market, then how do yo explain the Rockies and their crappy support, making the team pack up and move to NJ?
If the Avs were playing like the Rockies then im afraid they may be moving too. i give credit though, a great sellout streak for sure. but remember the team you guys were given.
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Post by NHLWinnipeg on Nov 14, 2011 15:57:00 GMT -6
The Colorado Avalanche own the longest sellout streak in history - 487 - spanning ELEVEN years from 1995 to 2006. That's such an albatross - I don't care if the team went undefeated for 11 years. Give credit where credit is due. Colorado owns the longest sellout streak in minor league hockey, in addition to the NHL. 1) I don't take 'announced attendance' figures or 'sell out' records all that seriously. When did the streak end? The AVS were handing out 1,000s of free tickets per game as far back as 2005. We've got the leaked NHL data for that. 2) Not saying Colorado has been a bad market, just giving some context and don't think it's necessarily quite as good as you try to make it seem.
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Post by frozenpondblue531 on Nov 14, 2011 16:03:02 GMT -6
If Colorado is such agreat market, then how do yo explain the Rockies and their crappy support, making the team pack up and move to NJ? If the Avs were playing like the Rockies then im afraid they may be moving too. i give credit though, a great sellout streak for sure. but remember the team you guys were given. Associating one who used facts to support Colorado's success as a Coloradoan or Avalanche-supporter is confusing logic. I'm not sure how the support for the Rockies - 30 years ago when the population was HALF of the current population and no grassroots hockey at the time - invalidates 2 record sellout streaks and an average of 35,000-40,000 people attending a game between 4 teams in the state 8 seasons running. Note all 4 teams play relatively close to each other - this isn't a state like California, Texas, or New York where the regions and intricacies of the state vary.
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Post by frozenpondblue531 on Nov 14, 2011 16:17:00 GMT -6
The Colorado Avalanche own the longest sellout streak in history - 487 - spanning ELEVEN years from 1995 to 2006. That's such an albatross - I don't care if the team went undefeated for 11 years. Give credit where credit is due. Colorado owns the longest sellout streak in minor league hockey, in addition to the NHL. 1) I don't take 'announced attendance' figures or 'sell out' records all that seriously. When did the streak end? The AVS were handing out 1,000s of free tickets per game as far back as 2005. We've got the leaked NHL data for that. 2) Not saying Colorado has been a bad market, just giving some context and don't think it's necessarily quite as good as you try to make it seem. floatyghostthat wrote hockey was "big" in Colorado - the premise of your response was refuting that and you stated hockey wasn't "that big of a deal" to invalidate the state's support. Even if there were handouts of let's say - 2,000 per game - an aggressive assumption, that degrades the scale of Hockey in Colorado only in miniscule terms accounting for 15k (per game) in attendance between the 2 college teams, 8k & 300+ sellout streak with the Eagles already adds up to a conservative estimate of 23,000. Add in 12,000 (at the lowest), and you have 35k. Add in 17,000-+ (which has happened more often than not in the Avalanche history), and that's 40,000 per game within a 100-minute radius. How is 35-42k not a big deal? Before the Avalanche arrived, the Denver Grizzlies were averaging 5-figures, I believe. I know the IHL's Grizzlies hit up 16k on multiple occassions. Colorado is not Canada, nor Michigan/Minnesota/Massachusetts, nor NY/Pennsylvania/Chicago/St.Louis/(smaller Northern states in relative density) in youth hockey participation, but it's still grown exponentially in the last 20 years. But to say Hockey wasn't "big" or a "success" in Colorado since the Avalanche is ignorant. Both the sport and state mutually benefitted each other.
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Post by NHLWinnipeg on Nov 14, 2011 16:25:09 GMT -6
1) I don't take 'announced attendance' figures or 'sell out' records all that seriously. When did the streak end? The AVS were handing out 1,000s of free tickets per game as far back as 2005. We've got the leaked NHL data for that. 2) Not saying Colorado has been a bad market, just giving some context and don't think it's necessarily quite as good as you try to make it seem. floatyghostthat wrote hockey was "big" in Colorado - the premise of your response was refuting that and you stated hockey wasn't "that big of a deal" to invalidate the state's support. Even if there were handouts of let's say - 2,000 per game - an aggressive assumption, that degrades the scale of Hockey in Colorado only in miniscule terms accounting for 15k (per game) in attendance between the 2 college teams, 8k & 300+ sellout streak with the Eagles already adds up to a conservative estimate of 23,000. Add in 12,000 (at the lowest), and you have 35k. Add in 17,000-+ (which has happened more often than not in the Avalanche history), and that's 40,000 per game within a 100-minute radius. How is 35-42k not a big deal? Before the Avalanche arrived, the Denver Grizzlies were averaging 5-figures, I believe. I know the IHL's Grizzlies hit up 16k on multiple occassions. Colorado is not Canada, nor Michigan/Minnesota/Massachusetts, nor NY/Pennsylvania/Chicago/St.Louis/(smaller Northern states in relative density) in youth hockey participation, but it's still grown exponentially in the last 20 years. But to say Hockey wasn't "big" or a "success" in Colorado since the Avalanche is ignorant. Both the sport and state mutually benefitted each other. I will remind you of what I was responding to: "Of all the moves and expansions over the past 20 years, the Avs are by and far the biggest success, both on and off the ice." I think it is arguable whether the AVS have been by and far more successful off the ice than say: San Jose Sharks - great team, huge corporate presence Minnesota Wild - terrible team, but hockey state I won't argue with most of the others, most of which have been failures: Dallas Stars -- fabulous until last few years (kind of like the AVS) Columbus Blue Jackets -- terrible team, good support at first ETC... Ottawa Senators are a special case...but I won't go into that here...
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Post by frozenpondblue531 on Nov 14, 2011 16:36:24 GMT -6
You know I didn't write that, correct? The handle "floatyghostthat" wrote it.
But to address your words, Minnesota is the indisputable #1 for hockey. Minnesota sells out the Xcel Energy Center for HIGH SCHOOL hockey. Minnesota's been the #1 hockey state for a half-century... they always will be. This is no match. And rename the Wild "North Stars", and give them their logo + uniform back, then Minnesota's current NHL team is back in the state's fabric of identity unlike the current situation. Hockey wasn't "new" to Minnesota - rather the Wild were. Minnesota is an entirely different situation compared to all elsewhere. Fans were not the reason the North Stars left.
I would say Colorado was the #2 sucesss in growing hockey. They had hands down the best growth in both youth hockey participation and amount of total patrons to college/professional hockey games.
After that, San Jose was a well-placed, well-run organization who reinvented themselves as one of the most technologically savvy organizations in sports. Dallas also scored a huge success - the most recent NHL draft being a testament to this. Neither experienced the growth of Colorado's though.
Then, I'll currently tip my hat to the fans in Nashville, who persevered through some forgetful bumps in the road to produce one of the best gameday environments in the league.
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