mrconfusion87
1st Line Centre
Resident of the Tropical Hockey Wasteland
Posts: 415
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Post by mrconfusion87 on Aug 2, 2011 22:21:52 GMT -6
I've got no problem if the Isles were moved to Brooklyn or Queens! Its still geographically Long Island after all!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2011 9:45:42 GMT -6
You really see the Isles as competition for the Nets? I think they'd complement each other nicely. . I've heard that the Devils and Nets have coexisted successfully.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 8, 2011 0:23:30 GMT -6
There are 15 markets that have both NBA and NHL teams. Soon to be 14 when Phoenix moves. 9 of the 15 markets have arenas where the teams share the building. Most people agree its a good idea to share a building. When there are 2 separate competing buildings like in Minnesota they cannibalize each other for other events like concerts etc. There isn't enough to go around and both lose money. Also promoters play one arena off the other. Plus taxpayers aren't hit with a double bill.
Shared 1. New York(Madison Square Garden)- Rangers-Knicks This works out well both teams are successful in attendance and financially
2. Chicago(United Center) Blackhawks-Bulls Works the same as New York
3.Boston(TD Garden) Bruins-Celtics Works well like New York/Chicago
4.Toronto(Air Canada Centre) Maple Leafs-Raptors Works well like the others. The Raptors get good crowds too believe it or not and are 10th in NBA in franchise value and revenue
5.Los Angeles(Staples Center) Kings-Lakers-Clippers All 3 do well in attendance. The Kings are in top 10 in franchise value. Even the Clippers draw good crowds.
6.Philadelphia(Wells Fargo Center) Flyers-76ers- Flyers do great in attendance, 76ers are down a little bit due to boring team with no stars. Overall this works well.
7.Washington(Verizon Center) Capitals-Wizards Capitals draw well Wizards don't due to down bad years. Both teams are owned by same owner so this works
8.Denver(Pepsi Center) Avalaunche-Nuggets Both teams have had trouble drawing lately. however both teams are owned by same owner so this works
9.Dallas(American Airlines Arena) Stars-Mavericks Stars do ok for a southern team 11th in franchise value, Mavericks do great in attendance and financially.
Teams that Don't Share
1.Minnesota- The Target Center wasn't built for hockey. As a result XCell Energy Center was built. Both arenas lose money. The Timberwolves want a 150 million dollar renovation of Target Center. There has been talk of shutting it down and moving the Wolves in with the Wild at X-Cell
2.Phoenix- Suns do well at American Airlines Center in downtown. It had too many obstructed views for hockey. Glendale arena was waste of money. Coyotes are likely headed to Quebec City after next season
3.Brooklyn/New York Islanders- They may share this building but nothing is official yet. This is the Islanders only hope of a new arena in New York area.
4.Florida- American Airlines Arena downtown draws well for Miami Heat. Bank Atlantic Center in Sunrise doesn't draw for Panthers.
5.Detroit- Pistons play at the Palace of Auburn hills. There was talk of Mike Illitch buying them last year and moving them into a new shared downtown arena with the Red wings. The Red wings don't like the building they got Joe Louis Arena and want a replacement.
6. Golden State Warriors/San Jose Sharks- In mid 90's there was talk of the Warriors moving to HP Pavilion home of the Sharks. Instead they choose to renovate Oracle Arena in Oakland which was built in 1966. Now the new owners of the Warriors are dropping hints that they may build a new arena in San Francisco by 2017 in the AT&T Park Parking lot home of baseballs San Francisco Giants.
Note I didn't count the Prudential Center in New Jersey because the Nets are only staying 1 more year until the arena is Brooklyn is built but it has worked out ok.
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Post by jjmoohead on Aug 8, 2011 14:25:19 GMT -6
Hey Mike, that is a great post. I definitely can't argue all of those. All I will say is that in some cases it wouldn't matter where the team played out of it wouldn't improve or squash current attendance. The Heat for example or the Leafs. However combining does seem to make more sense.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 8, 2011 23:34:46 GMT -6
Hey Mike, that is a great post. I definitely can't argue all of those. All I will say is that in some cases it wouldn't matter where the team played out of it wouldn't improve or squash current attendance. The Heat for example or the Leafs. However combining does seem to make more sense. Hey thanks. I agree if a team or sport is popular then it is popular. If its not its not. Nothing can change that. A few other advantages of shared buildings besides taxpayers saving money is that if the teams have to pick up some or most of the contruction cost instead of taxpayers they can split the cost plus split the upkeep costs if the taxpayers haven't agreed to do so. Another good thing about a shared building is that if one of the teams fails you aren't stuck with a big white elephant like Glendale will be. When the Atlanta Thrashers failed the city wasn't stuck with a empty arena since the Atlanta Hawks play there. Vancouver was also lucky is the regard when the Vancouver Grizzlies of the NBA failed. In the past before the current new arena wave most of the buildings were shared. Look at all the old barn arenas. At Boston Garden,Chicago Stadium,Madison Square Garden 3,Maple Leaf Gardens(the Huskies played in toronto when the NBA started), LA Forum, Spectrum in Philly, Olympia Stadium in Detroit, and Buffalo Memorial Auditorium(Buffalo had the Clippers way back) all shared.
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mrconfusion87
1st Line Centre
Resident of the Tropical Hockey Wasteland
Posts: 415
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Post by mrconfusion87 on Aug 10, 2011 20:18:03 GMT -6
1.Minnesota- The Target Center wasn't built for hockey. As a result XCell Energy Center was built. Both arenas lose money. The Timberwolves want a 150 million dollar renovation of Target Center. There has been talk of shutting it down and moving the Wolves in with the Wild at X-Cell Never heard of that rumor, but if ever I doubt it would push through because the X has another tenant - the Minnesota Swarm of the NLL, which plays in the winter and spring as well!
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Post by Douggy-D on Aug 10, 2011 21:30:36 GMT -6
Well, as someone from New Jersey I can tell you that neither the Devils nor Nets did well in attendance when they played at the Meadowlands. That place wasn't that great. The sightlines were alright, but it was a pain in the ass for many fans to get to. The Devils did pretty well with attendance from the mid 90's to the first couple years of the 2000's, but in the last few years there, neither teams could even sell out playoff games. The last year the Devils played there they didn't even sell out a single game until the 2nd round of the playoffs. Part of that was because it was too big.
At the Prudential Center, the Devils still don't get huge crowds but I believe the first few years there their gate revenue was $44M, $44M, and $38M. That puts them I believe 10th-15th in the League. I don't know about last year, although it is probably lower.
As for the Nets, I remember in February 2010 there was a huge blizzard here, and the Nets drew an announced crowd of about 13,000, but the actual crowd was only 1,016. The Devils played the same night and only drew about 5,000. But they did bounce back the next game with a sellout (which I was at). Last year I saw them play my Pistons and I got a ticket in the 200's level for only $10. Out of the 8 sections by me, I'm pretty sure the one with the most people only had about 30, and these sections are 100-200 seats each. The place was 1/2 empty. The "announced crowd" was about 13,000, but I can tell you that there were 10,000 people TOPS in there. Probably 7,000-9,000.
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Post by Douggy-D on Aug 10, 2011 21:35:21 GMT -6
You lose seats for hockey because a rink is significantly bigger. Yeah, but you typically only lose about 1,000 seats for hockey. There have got to have been at least some obstructed seats.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 11, 2011 12:32:08 GMT -6
1.Minnesota- The Target Center wasn't built for hockey. As a result XCell Energy Center was built. Both arenas lose money. The Timberwolves want a 150 million dollar renovation of Target Center. There has been talk of shutting it down and moving the Wolves in with the Wild at X-Cell Never heard of that rumor, but if ever I doubt it would push through because the X has another tenant - the Minnesota Swarm of the NLL, which plays in the winter and spring as well! Actually it is the ST. Paul mayor who has proposed this. www.minnpost.com/jayweiner/2011/05/25/28646/st_paul_mayor_coleman_offers_intergalactic_plan_to_solve_vikings_stadium_issue_and_lots_moreI doubt it happens too but its a good idea. Why waste 150 million renovating the Target Center?? I expect Minnesota to build the Vikings a new stadium(as of yesterday the owner and Arden Hills announced they are close) Its going to cost the state a ton of money. I'm not sure they will have enough left over for the Target Center.
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quackbeth
Captain "C"
By the pricking of my thumbs Something hockey this way comes!
Posts: 741
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Post by quackbeth on Aug 11, 2011 13:15:36 GMT -6
That'd be a good solution...Brooklyn or Naussau, it's still NY, really, and they'd stay the Islanders... NY/Brooklyn Islanders, either way, it'd be a nice preservation of the team. The NHL has really started to reshape itself nicely in these post-lockout years... There've been some VERY memorable Cup wins and playoff series, Crosby and--*grits teeth*--Ovechkin are two very good, young stars and their Pens and Caps have a good, new(ish) rivalry going, rule changes have moved hockey out of the Dead Puck Era and into a more lively era, and attendance and interest levels have risen accordingly, California hockey's never been better with the Ducks, Kings, and Sharks all utterly hating each other, all with proud moments, and all playoff teams, and Canada and traditional markets, it looks like, are going to start getting their teams back with the Jets coming back, the Nordiques coming back via a Coyote move barring a further miracle (atrocity?) in Glendale, and the Preds and Panthers, as well, are in trouble, as the old markets ressurface. It's the best of the old and the best of the new! And with the NBA sputtering out, The Good Old Hockey Game could get more exposure and more love than ever before!
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Post by Guardian on Aug 11, 2011 20:45:02 GMT -6
Would they rename them the Brooklyn Islanders?
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mrconfusion87
1st Line Centre
Resident of the Tropical Hockey Wasteland
Posts: 415
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Post by mrconfusion87 on Aug 11, 2011 22:57:01 GMT -6
Never heard of that rumor, but if ever I doubt it would push through because the X has another tenant - the Minnesota Swarm of the NLL, which plays in the winter and spring as well! Actually it is the ST. Paul mayor who has proposed this. www.minnpost.com/jayweiner/2011/05/25/28646/st_paul_mayor_coleman_offers_intergalactic_plan_to_solve_vikings_stadium_issue_and_lots_moreI doubt it happens too but its a good idea. Why waste 150 million renovating the Target Center?? I expect Minnesota to build the Vikings a new stadium(as of yesterday the owner and Arden Hills announced they are close) Its going to cost the state a ton of money. I'm not sure they will have enough left over for the Target Center. Interesting. Thanks for the article. Anyway thank God Minny is getting close to building a new (outdoor) stadium for the Vikes! About friggin time - time to compete with the Pack for the "coldest NFL field" title again!
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 11, 2011 23:28:23 GMT -6
That'd be a good solution...Brooklyn or Naussau, it's still NY, really, and they'd stay the Islanders... NY/Brooklyn Islanders, either way, it'd be a nice preservation of the team. The NHL has really started to reshape itself nicely in these post-lockout years... There've been some VERY memorable Cup wins and playoff series, Crosby and--*grits teeth*--Ovechkin are two very good, young stars and their Pens and Caps have a good, new(ish) rivalry going, rule changes have moved hockey out of the Dead Puck Era and into a more lively era, and attendance and interest levels have risen accordingly, California hockey's never been better with the Ducks, Kings, and Sharks all utterly hating each other, all with proud moments, and all playoff teams, and Canada and traditional markets, it looks like, are going to start getting their teams back with the Jets coming back, the Nordiques coming back via a Coyote move barring a further miracle (atrocity?) in Glendale, and the Preds and Panthers, as well, are in trouble, as the old markets ressurface. It's the best of the old and the best of the new! And with the NBA sputtering out, The Good Old Hockey Game could get more exposure and more love than ever before! Great post. The game of hockey has never been better. Don't forget the revival of the Chicago Blackhawks either and the Bruins winning the cup for the 1st time since 1972. However I don't think Nashville is in that much trouble. At least not right now. Attendance has picked up the last few year. But who knows what happens if they start losing. And the NBA is not sputtering out. Last year broke attendance records and revenue records. There was tons of interest due to the LeBron decision, Coach Phil Jacksons last year, other free agent moves and a revived Chicago Bulls team. However the NBA may blow it. Most people expect the lockout to last the whole year. They are not close at all on a new CBA. If they miss the season i expect hockey to really thrive and grow.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 11, 2011 23:30:13 GMT -6
Would they rename them the Brooklyn Islanders? Most likely. The New Jersey Nets will be renamed Brooklyn something. They may change the name Nets.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 11, 2011 23:45:33 GMT -6
Interesting. Thanks for the article. Anyway thank God Minny is getting close to building a new (outdoor) stadium for the Vikes! About friggin time - time to compete with the Pack for the "coldest NFL field" title again! No problem. The new downtown LA stadium that was semi-approved yesterday has scared the hell out of Minnesota. They won't be competing with Green Bay for coldest field however. The stadium will be retractable roof. The govenor is making the team do this. He wants to hold other events like final 4's etc like they do at the Metrodome.
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