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Post by Guardian on Oct 25, 2012 10:39:55 GMT -6
With the advent of HDTV and the fact that all the games are televised I think smaller buildings are the wave of the future.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2012 10:41:10 GMT -6
With the advent of HDTV and the fact that all the games are televised I think smaller buildings are the wave of the future.
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Post by jetsorbust on Oct 25, 2012 11:25:09 GMT -6
Winnipeg and True North has helped the NHL see the reality of arenas. All those giant US arena's that were built for Basketball and couldnt fill on hockey nights really hurt the draw of the NHL in those cities. And those larger arenas that do well will be happy with another "smaller" arena creating a huge demand which in turn increases ticket prices which in turn increases the league "average" for ticket price which in turn allows other teams to sell an increase to their fans as "reasonable compared to the average". Win all around. This is very true. Although as a fan, I don't like it! (high ticket prices that is)
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Post by jetsorbust on Oct 25, 2012 11:30:20 GMT -6
With the advent of HDTV and the fact that all the games are televised I think smaller buildings are the wave of the future. I can't say I agree with this. You want to build the biggest building a market can afford. I'm sure the MTS Centre would be bigger if TNSE KNEW they would have an NHL team by 2012. Probably not much more than 17 000 seats, but bigger none the less. Now, a small arena that serves the market is certainly better than a half empty big arena, but you certainly won't see Toronto replacing the ACC with a 15 000 seater.
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Post by Tim on Oct 25, 2012 11:32:43 GMT -6
With the advent of HDTV and the fact that all the games are televised I think smaller buildings are the wave of the future. I can't say I agree with this. You want to build the biggest building a market can afford. I'm sure the MTS Centre would be bigger if TNSE KNEW they would have an NHL team by 2012. Probably not much more than 17 000 seats, but bigger none the less. Now, a small arena that serves the market is certainly better than a half empty big arena, but you certainly won't see Toronto replacing the ACC with a 15 000 seater. YOU ARE ARE SOOOOO CORRECT!
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Post by grumpy on Oct 25, 2012 12:30:01 GMT -6
As long as people want to see live games large arenas will be required.
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Post by slippy on Oct 25, 2012 14:03:46 GMT -6
MTS Centre was built with 15,000 seats because of concerts, rodeo, monster truck shows, wrestling, comedy shows, kids shows, figure skating, etc.
I believe if True North knew they'd get the NHL back, they would have done nothing differently. Besides NHL games, how often do we have 15,000, or anywhere close to that in the building? Hardly ever.
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Post by grumpy on Oct 25, 2012 14:11:15 GMT -6
I understood it sells out quite regularly for other events. Not sure if that means 15k or 16k. It is/was one of the busiest arenas in North America BEFORE the Jets returned.
(Wikipedia) The MTS Centre has a capacity of 15,004 for hockey and 16,345 for concerts.
In 2008, the MTS Centre sold 385,427 tickets. These ticket sales included only non-sporting events and did not include hockey games. With the tickets sales the MTS Centre placed as the 19th busiest arena in the world. The arena sat as 11th busiest among facilities in North America, its highest ranking ever, and it remained in the 3rd spot in Canada, after the Bell Centre in Montreal (sixth worldwide) and the Air Canada Centre in Toronto (fifth worldwide).[16] For the year of 2009 it ranked as the 39th busiest arena in the world, and 26th busiest in North America.[17]
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Post by mikecubs on Oct 25, 2012 22:40:55 GMT -6
Here is a question and answer about the Barclays Center and the difference in money for the Islanders vs. Nassau Coliseum. Note, the article mentions how "well" Phoenix did at American West, this isn't true they lost money but they didn't hemorage it nearly as bad as in Glendale. The rest of the article is interesting. Islanders’ Brooklyn Move Raises Complex IssuesBy JEFF Z. KLEIN The Islanders’ move to Brooklyn after the 2014-15 season raises a number of intriguing and complicated issues that were easy to overlook Wednesday when the relocation was announced. With a chance to consider the ramifications of the Islanders’ decision to leave Nassau Coliseum, where they have played since they began as an expansion franchise in 1972, some questions have come into clearer focus. Q. Will Barclays Center be a good rink? A. Barclays is small by N.H.L. standards, so small that the ice sheet needs a U-shaped configuration, with virtually no seating at one end of the rink. But the U shape is not necessarily bad. The Phoenix Coyotes played under the same configuration and drew decent crowds at America West Arena, not falling into financial trouble until they moved to exurban Glendale, Ariz., in 2003. “The intimacy of this building is going to make watching hockey a terrific experience,” Commissioner Gary Bettman said Wednesday, referring to Barclays. The capacity for hockey is 14,500, expandable to 15,000, Bettman said. The smallest N.H.L. arena is Winnipeg’s MTS Centre, with a capacity of 15,004. Yet the Jets are prospering; they sell out with the second-highest average ticket price in the league ($98), behind only the Toronto Maple Leafs. The passion for hockey in Brooklyn cannot be expected to reach the fever generated in Canada, but the Islanders can probably expect an attendance infusion. They averaged 13,191 at Nassau Coliseum last season, 29th in the 30-team league. And they will probably be able to increase their average ticket price (currently $49, 20th in the league).The first hockey games at Barclays will take place Jan. 19 and Jan. 20, when SKA St. Petersburg and Dynamo Moscow play a pair of regular-season K.H.L. games. If the lockout is still on, Ilya Kovalchuk and Alex Ovechkin will be among the first players to skate in Brooklyn. Q . Why would the Islanders move from the Coliseum, where they are tenants, to Barclays, where they will still be tenants?
A. The short answer: $35 million in extra revenue per year. That goes a long way toward wiping out the club’s current operating deficit, estimated at $8 million per year.The main benefit in this move “is not in the increased revenue the Isles will get from the average fan; it’s in the huge increase they’ll get from selling luxury suites and premium club seats,” said Tony Knopp, chief executive officer of Spotlight TMS, a company that manages corporate tickets at Barclays Center and other sites around the country. The Coliseum, built in 1972 and barely renovated since, has 31 luxury suites and a relatively small number of high-priced premium seats. Knopp estimates that the suites generate about $3 million a year and the premium seats about $16 million. Barclays Center, which is far more geographically convenient to corporate customers than the Coliseum, has 104 luxury suites. Knopp estimated that those suites would generate about $21 million for the Islanders, while premium seating would generate an additional $33 million. That comes to $54 million from suites and premium seats — $35 million more per year than what the Islanders generate at the Coliseum.“I’d happily ride the train for another 25 minutes to watch $35 million more in talent on the ice,” Knopp said. Q. How will the Islanders survive until they move to Brooklyn? A. The Islanders will play about two and a half lame-duck seasons at the Coliseum, assuming the lockout is settled in the next couple of months. But they are not likely to lose as much there as they have been losing. A new collective bargaining agreement is all but certain to include an expanded revenue-sharing system. The Islanders are excluded from the current system because, despite their losses, they are in a television market of more than 2.5 million households. That restriction would be lifted under new revenue-sharing plans proposed by the N.H.L. and the players association. The Islanders can expect to receive perhaps $10 million per year in revenue-sharing money. They currently receive nothing. Q. Are the Islanders really not going to change their name or their uniforms? A. The owner, Charles B. Wang, said they would remain the New York Islanders, the team that won four straight Stanley Cups in blue and orange in the early 1980s. After the “fish sticks” logo debacle of the mid-’90s, the Islanders learned the hard way that in hockey, you do not mess with tradition. Then again, it will be hard for Wang to ignore the marketing mother lode the Nets have mined in switching from New Jersey red, white and blue to Brooklyn black. Sales of Nets gear have increased by 3,000 percent this month from the same period last year on Fanatics.com, a leading online retailer of officially licensed sports merchandise. Wang will have a lot of time to think about how many more Islanders sweaters he might sell in 2015 if they say Brooklyn on them. slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/25/islanders-brooklyn-move-raises-complex-issues/
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Post by mikecubs on Oct 25, 2012 23:01:00 GMT -6
Here is an easier breakdown of the projections per year
Nassau Coliseum Luxury suits- 3M Club Seats- 16M Total-19M
Barclays Center Luxury suits-21M Clubs Seats-33M Total-54M
Last year when they did the forbes list(insert disclamor) the Islanders had a total revenue of 63M last place in the league below even Phoenix. If you add 35 million to that 63M number the Islanders would have finished with 98M dollars good for 14th place in the league. (Forbes totals included Atlanta's totals so Winnipeg wasn't included)
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Post by jetsorbust on Oct 26, 2012 7:10:10 GMT -6
I stopped reading after seeing that the Jets average ticket price is $98 (2nd highest in league) and the Islanders is $49. Not only is that freaking HALF but they are only 20th in the league in terms of price!
Sure I already knew this more or less... but it still irks me whenever I read about it! And yet my season ticket payments go on without any though of cancelling
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Post by Guardian on Oct 26, 2012 10:27:06 GMT -6
I stopped reading after seeing that the Jets average ticket price is $98 (2nd highest in league) and the Islanders is $49. Not only is that freaking HALF but they are only 20th in the league in terms of price! Sure I already knew this more or less... but it still irks me whenever I read about it! And yet my season ticket payments go on without any though of cancelling I used to have Flames Season Tickets a few years ago and I know how you feel. If I gott the right deal on a flight and hotel it was actually cheaper to fly Phoenix to see a game then to go to the Saddledome. I gave up my seats because it sickened me to think that some of my money was being used to prop up teams in non hockey markets.
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Post by Douggy-D on Oct 27, 2012 12:32:19 GMT -6
Barclays Center is - wait for it - about 20 MINUTES AWAY FROM MADISON SQUARE GARDEN!. Couldn't believe this when I looked it up on Google Maps. Imagine being a hockey fan and living in an apartment halfway between each arena?! Hockey heaven... Yeah, and Prudential Center is only 25 minutes, and more/less than a 20 minute train ride. The Meadowlands were only about 20 minutes away as well. Plus many other teams not too far away either, like the Bruins, Flyers, and Capitals.
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Post by Douggy-D on Oct 27, 2012 12:38:07 GMT -6
I think this move will help the Islanders a lot. Even though Barclays is only 20 minutes from MSG and Nassau Coliseum was 45, if the Islanders can sell lots of season tickets, especially when they first move there, there will be less Ranger fans than there normally are.
For example, since the Devils sold out their tickets before the Rangers-Devils series was revealed last year, there were still plenty of Ranger fans at the Rock, but it was mostly Devil fans.
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Post by slippy on Oct 30, 2012 3:43:44 GMT -6
Edmonton's Future Arena: 18,000 seats Quebec City's Future Arena: 18,000 seats Prudential Center (2007): 17,625 seats Console Energy Center (2010): 18,387 seats Seattle's Future Arena: 18,000 seats
I don't think smaller venues are necessarily the "wave of the future". MTS Centre at 15,000 makes sense for Winnipeg. Barclays Center can only hold 15,000 for hockey and besides, I think the last time the NY Islanders genuinely sold 15,000 tickets at full price and had 15,000 people show up was the 1980's.
Madison Square Garden is 20 minutes away. On a night where the Rangers & Islanders are both playing at home, that's 33,200 people watching NHL hockey within the radius of a few miles.
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