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Post by TheDeuce on Jul 29, 2013 13:01:07 GMT -6
Read an interesting bit on Pete Rose this AM. Basically, he took the position that his betting on baseball was not as bad as those players using performance enhancing drugs.
Whatever discussion followed that, it got me to wondering: it's easy to see the wrongness of betting against the team you play for BUT I'm not seeing the horror of a baseball player betting on games that he's not involved in. Taken further, I'm not seeing the horror of betting on your own team. I can see the fear of another 1919 Black Sox fiasco but if a guy bets on his own team he won't be throwing the game, that's for sure.
I can see arguments about keeping the integrity of the game intact and all that and I know there's a rule against betting on baseball for MLB players. Pete Rose knew the rules, broke them knowingly, and is taking his lumps for it. But I don't understand the magnitude of demonization that's been applied to him. IMHO the integrity of the game took a lot bigger of a hit by having the record books rewritten (semi) permanently by juiced up cheaters playing with the modern-day equivalent of corked bats. What's some irrelevant betting compared to that?
Thoughts? Insight? Illumination? My ears and mind are open...
m.
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Sam
Captain "C"
Hello, hello!
Posts: 787
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Post by Sam on Jul 29, 2013 13:20:13 GMT -6
I agree with you completely. To be hounded like he has when there's guys using PED's to better their game, is wrong.
The only thing I can think of as to why everyone's reacted in the way they have to him betting on his own team, is because you don't know if there's people on the opposing team that will throw the game, but because they haven't bet on it, it hasn't been known. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors. So I figure if that was the case, Rose thought he'd have been on to a winner as it wouldn't appear that he would be throwing the game by betting against his own team.
I waffled a bit there, but I hope you get my point
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Post by jetsorbust on Jul 29, 2013 13:27:18 GMT -6
I agree as well.
I could see Sam's point here, about maybe having buddies on the other team, or having inside info on injuries, etc but all of those are fairly weak arguements. At the end of the day, it just doesn't seem right to have players betting on games so it's right to have a rule against it IMO, but Pete Rose has been villified for something that to me wasn't THAT big of a deal.
As you say, he really didn't effect the integrity of the game at all, let alone as much as all the guys hopped up on PED's.
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Post by jval07 on Jul 29, 2013 14:08:50 GMT -6
My biggest issue is Pete Rose's betting scandal occured after his playing days when he was a coach/manager. He's not a HOFer for his coaching/managing, he's a HOFer for his achievements on the field as a player. His betting scandal has nothing to do with his stats so why isn't he in the HOF?? I also argue for guys like Reggie Bush who had to forfeit his Heisman because he took money and gifts illegally from boosters. How did any of that affect his acheivements on the field? Dumb consequences IMO. But yet Ryan Braun still has his MVP trophy from 2 yrs ago despite admitting to PED use which DOES affect on field achievements that led to him being voted MVP
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Post by mikecubs on Jul 29, 2013 21:38:27 GMT -6
Here is why I think MLB thinks what Rose did is so bad. What if he rang up massive losses betting on his own team? What if he couldn't pay them off. What if to make up these loses in the future he started betting on the opposing team and started throwing games/making unusual moves as a manager. That's why MLB is so against any betting. I'm not saying Rose would have done this but MLB and no sports league can risk it. If people lost trust in that the games were real all 4 major leagues would lose massive $$$ and fans. Once you had a betting scandal many fans will think the 1st time the home team loses an important game that the game was rigged weather it was or not and give up and find some other form of entertainment.
PED'S, spitballs, sandpaper, greese, corked bats etc... are horrible too it's cheating but it's still not the same as actually throwing a game. MLB need to have a 2 strike rule for PED'S. Get caught once get a much longer suspension than now. Get caught twice you should be suspended for life. Any awards like rookie of year, MVP, Silver Slugger etc... should be wiped out after you get caught once.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Aug 13, 2013 10:51:31 GMT -6
Ban Bud Selig for life, Rose did an awful thing im fine with banning him.
Selig watched and absolutely knew about PEDs and essentially tried to cover it up for years. The guy is awful
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 13, 2013 16:08:23 GMT -6
I'm mixed on Selig. His handling of the steroids thing was/still is a joke. Why no life time penalties yet??? Hello. I think he wants guys juiced for home runs/big ratings/interest. He probably should be fired for that alone. But in fairness unlike Bettman he's done a lot of good for the sport. Interleague play, wild cards, almost everyone has a new retro park, massive tv deals/ interest. Finding a way to get a team in Washington over Algelos objections was probably his best move. Getting revenue sharing which seemed almost impossible way back. He's done about everything you can do to help competitive balance considering how powerful the players union is. He actually would have had a nice legacy over time once people forgot how awful of a public speaker he is if he would have cracked down on steroids. Too bad!
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Post by TheDeuce on Aug 13, 2013 17:32:08 GMT -6
Selig should take a page from Bettman's book and lose those pesky extra innings. Have a home run derby instead.
m.
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Post by TheDeuce on Aug 13, 2013 17:33:21 GMT -6
Ban Bud Selig for life, Rose did an awful thing im fine with banning him. {snip} So back to my OP: What was so awful about what Pete Rose did? m.
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Post by Lions67 on Aug 13, 2013 18:14:25 GMT -6
Selig should take a page from Bettman's book and lose those pesky extra innings. Have a home run derby instead. m. can you imagine that??....lol the purists would be up in arms over it. but as a casual fan, and in the interest of "growing the game" the excitement of ending a tied game to a homerun derby would increase veiwership. the potential is there. the US market already loves baseball and cant grow anymore revenue. but untapped markets in Canada,Mexico and the U.K. are waiting. the tv deals that would follow cannot be ignored any longer!
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Post by Bruinsfan on Aug 13, 2013 19:22:40 GMT -6
betting on baseball while managing is unforgivable. 162 games a year....throw 1 to get a nice profit is completely destructive.
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Post by TheDeuce on Aug 14, 2013 0:09:37 GMT -6
betting on baseball while managing is unforgivable. 162 games a year....throw 1 to get a nice profit is completely destructive. If Pete Rose was betting against his own team then yes, I agree it's unforgivable. But from what I understand he was betting on games that his team wasn't involved in. I don't see the horror. m.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Aug 14, 2013 8:37:53 GMT -6
how can you trust what gambling addict pete rose says? he bet on baseball...thats enough
oh and ban bud selig
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Post by USApegger on Aug 14, 2013 9:49:08 GMT -6
I agree with Rose, he should be able to get a second chance. I really don't care that he bet on baseball, sure he could have made moves as a manager to throw the game to win a bet, however having a known cheater like Mcguire come up and hit a roid induced massive home run shot is cheating as well
Rose was a great great player and should be in the hall, he managed for just three years, I was actually at the Cubs game in the last series that he managed before he resigned.
I bet there is massive gambling in all sports, and I wouldn't be surprised if some players place bets to this day on or against their teams
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Post by Lions67 on Aug 14, 2013 14:51:04 GMT -6
I agree with Rose, he should be able to get a second chance. I really don't care that he bet on baseball, sure he could have made moves as a manager to throw the game to win a bet, however having a known cheater like Mcguire come up and hit a roid induced massive home run shot is cheating as well Rose was a great great player and should be in the hall, he managed for just three years, I was actually at the Cubs game in the last series that he managed before he resigned. I bet there is massive gambling in all sports, and I wouldn't be surprised if some players place bets to this day on or against their teams just for the record. thats MAGWIRE, not McGuire...lol
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