Poll finds most Canadians don't want NFL if it hurts CFL

[mikecubs]

Poll shows NFL not welcome in Canada if it hurts CFL — even in Toronto


Jon Bon Jovi might want to rethink his alleged interest in bringing an NFL team to Toronto if a new poll is to be believed.

The poll, conducted by University of Lethbridge sociologist Reginald Bibby through Angus Reid Global, shows that Canadians across the country are blasé about the prospect of the NFL coming to Canada and adamantly opposed if it would harm the Canadian Football League. Mess with our league and you won't be welcome is the message.

While many polls should be taken with the same skepticism that might greet a Rob Ford press conference, there are good reasons to believe the essence of this one. Television ratings show that the CFL outdraws the NFL with regularity. Add in a sense of national pride that has been growing for the past decade and it's not hard to imagine that Canadians want to protect their own league.

The online survey of 1,007 Canadians carried out in mid-November shows that 81 per cent of the respondents who care about the issue either don't want the NFL to establish itself in Canada (40 per cent) or would welcome it only if they were assured that the CFL continued to operate (41 per cent). Only 19 per cent said they would welcome the NFL even if it ultimately killed the CFL.

"Simply put, most football fans and many non-fans like things the way they are," Bibby concluded. "To enjoy things American is not to say goodbye to things Canadian. We can like the NFL. But the CFL, despite its ups and downs, has been a long-standing and valued Canadian institution. Its slogan, This Is Our League, seemingly resonates with many. We are not big on sacrifices."

That was the predominant opinion of respondents, including those in Toronto where the NFL would surely land if it ever ventures across the border. In Toronto, only 15 per cent said they wanted the NFL regardless of its effect on the CFL. That's an amazingly low number considering that Toronto is considered the area of the country with the least allegiance to the CFL and greatest desire for an American invasion.

One-quarter of Torontonians said they don't want the NFL at all or would accept it only if the CFL's future were secured.

Support for an NFL team regardless of the consequences was highest in Toronto and lowest on the Prairies. It was also highest (15 per cent) among those aged 18 to 35. However, that same age group was also the most adamant (25 per cent) that they would welcome the NFL only if the CFL continued to exist.

An affinity to the CFL follows suit with an early survey by Bibby that showed the CFL had the support of 26 per cent of Canadians while the NFL drew interest from 21 per cent. Thirty per cent of Toronto respondents preferred the NFL, while 22 per cent favoured the CFL.

The report cautions anyone seeking to establish an NFL foothold here that underestimating Canada's love of the CFL could have dire consequences.

"Any attempt to drop an NFL team in Toronto and proceed to triumphantly market it as 'Canada’s team' – with little consciousness of cultural nerve-endings – may be met with surprising antagonism and indifference by much of the country," Bibby concluded.

It noted that anyone considering bringing an NFL team to Toronto -- say Bon Jovi and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, as reported last week -- might want to ensure that the Toronto Argonauts thrive. Interestingly, there are rumblings that MLSE is considering buy the Argos -- and possibly for that very reason.

"Rather than needing to be slain as a rival by an incoming NFL team, a healthy CFL might actually be the key to the long-term success of such an NFL initiative," it said. "If appropriate cultural sensitivity and respect is shown towards `our league', NFL backers may find that their franchise has an opportunity to co-exist reasonably harmoniously with the CFL in Canada.

"Otherwise, the seemingly invincible NFL just might be thrown for a surprising loss 'up north'."

The survey, of course, comes at a time when rumblings about the NFL's interest in Toronto that registered on the Richter scale with the Bon Jovi story. Those rumblings started in the early 1970s.

Just saying ...

ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/cfl-55-yard-line/poll-shows-nfl-not-welcome-canada-hurts-cfl-140008919.html

[mikecubs]

By the way the Atlanta Falcons vs. Buffalo Bills game was a complete bust today attendance wise. It only drew 38,969. This was inflated however.

This article says it looked like it was realistically under 30,000.
www.businessinsider.com/the-nfls-annual-game-in-toronto-was-a-complete-bust-this-year-2013-12

They should end this series. Maybe play only a pre season game in Toronto.

[mikecubs]

Pics from the game.

ca.sports.yahoo.com/photos/nfl-in-toronto-falcons-vs-bills-1385949575-slideshow/

[hacky666]

I'm not surprised.

It's Toronto, they only care about the Laughs and their crack smoking mayor.

[Guardian]

I also prefer the CFL game.

[Bruinsfan]

I havent seen bon jovi or his potential backers claim to want the NFL to actually move to toronto. If anything you may see them buy the team and keep it in buffalo which is a better location because of Rochester and Southern Ontario. There is interest to build a stadium on the waterfront near Niagara Falls.


Roger Goodell was born in Western NY, His father was from Buffalo.

oh and lets not forget the elephant in the room

"The Bills’ lease with Erie County and New York State extends through the 2022 season. If the team were to break it by relocating, it would have to pay $400 million — although there is a one-time option to terminate the lease after the 2019 season, at a cost of $28,363,500."
www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/bon-jovi-report-a-hot-topic-among-the-bills-20131125

Ralph most likely dies before 2019 just saying.



The bills are staying in Western NY is a large market when you consider rochester and southern ontario.


So who buys the bills....My bet is on Terry Pegula. The price he would pay for an NFL team with an investment team would pay off instantly. NFL teams cannot go in the Red, its almost impossible because the revenue sharing is so high. 9.5 billion dollar industry, more than any other pro sports market.

[jval07]

While I love the NFL and follow it religiously, while not having much interest in the CFL other than the Bombers, I too never want to see the NFL in Canada.
1st off, the Rogers Center needs to go. That place was cool in 1990. Looks horrible on TV for both baseball and football.
2nd, while I'm not a fan of the CFL (mostly I find the quality really bad), I want it to be successful and it needs a team in Toronto. I'd also like to see Halifax get a team.

[Bruinsfan]

too many rich guys in rochester to leave western NY.

[mikecubs]

Dec 2, 2013 12:00:05 GMT -6 Bruinsfan said:

I havent seen bon jovi or his potential backers claim to want the NFL to actually move to toronto. If anything you may see them buy the team and keep it in buffalo which is a better location because of Rochester and Southern Ontario. There is interest to build a stadium on the waterfront near Niagara Falls.


Roger Goodell was born in Western NY, His father was from Buffalo.

oh and lets not forget the elephant in the room

"The Bills’ lease with Erie County and New York State extends through the 2022 season. If the team were to break it by relocating, it would have to pay $400 million — although there is a one-time option to terminate the lease after the 2019 season, at a cost of $28,363,500."
www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/bon-jovi-report-a-hot-topic-among-the-bills-20131125

Ralph most likely dies before 2019 just saying.



The bills are staying in Western NY is a large market when you consider rochester and southern ontario.


So who buys the bills....My bet is on Terry Pegula. The price he would pay for an NFL team with an investment team would pay off instantly. NFL teams cannot go in the Red, its almost impossible because the revenue sharing is so high. 9.5 billion dollar industry, more than any other pro sports market.

I have heard that rumor of a Niagara Falls stadium. I don't think a new stadium will happen(I'd like to see it though). Buffalo even with help isn't rich enough to sell all the fancy boxes/club seats that new stadiums have according to Bills president Russ Brandon. When they announced the current renovations/lease extension he hinted that further renovations would take place to Ralph Wilson Stadium. I agree with you on Pegula buying the Bills and Goodall would never let his boyhood team leave for Canada. Can't see the networks wanting a foreign market either. Network deal in the NFL's bread and butter.

Buffalo area is too big to not have NFL but even with help you really can't call Buffalo a large market. You have to factor in Rochester and S. Ontario but you can't count that entire area either because Rochester is far away and S. Ontario has a ton of people who couldn't care less about NFL and while places like St. Catherines/Hamilton are close Toronto is quite far away. The Sabres are a lower 2/3rd revenue team and the Bills are one on the "poorest" teams in the league though they are viable(forbes had they at 12.6 M profit last year) so large market isn't a good term to use for Buffalo.

[mikecubs]

Dec 2, 2013 12:08:10 GMT -6 jval07 said:

While I love the NFL and follow it religiously, while not having much interest in the CFL other than the Bombers, I too never want to see the NFL in Canada.
1st off, the Rogers Center needs to go. That place was cool in 1990. Looks horrible on TV for both baseball and football.
2nd, while I'm not a fan of the CFL (mostly I find the quality really bad), I want it to be successful and it needs a team in Toronto. I'd also like to see Halifax get a team.

I've been saying this for a long time too! If the Jays had a new retro park with a decent capacity(around 40,000 to 42,000 instead of the current 49,282 monstrosity) I really believe that they could become an elite market/huge revenue team again like the 90's due to Toronto's huge demographics and how baseball very close follows demographics revenue wise in most cases. Once Oakland Coliseum and Tropicana Field are gone Rogers Centre is really going to stick out in a bad way. They are getting grass by 2017 which will be a big help but the place will still suck a lot. If Rogers was smart they never would have done this screw ball idea. The 1st deal with the Bills was 5 years for 78 million dollars! Rogers gained nothing from the deal and Ralph Wilson got rich. Why the hell is Rogers so interested in propping up Buffalos football team while the Jays play in a crappy circular stadium? That 78M should have been put towards something useful like a new Blue Jays park!

[mikecubs]

Here is the attendance so far for this series regular season games starting in 08

52,134
51,567
50,746
51,579
40,770
38,969

The 1st 4 don't look too bad considering capacity is around 54,000 for NFL right? So what happened the last 2 games? They stopped giving away free tickets.

Freebies-free Bills in Toronto game expected to draw 40,000

Expect another crowd of about 40,000 for Bills in Toronto VI.

And for the second consecutive year, that’s a real number. Freebies-free.

The Buffalo Bills (4-7) play host to the Atlanta Falcons (2-9) Sunday at 4 p.m. EST under the winter-shielding roof of the Rogers Centre (Sportsnet, Citytv).

As so many Torontonians suspected, the Rogers Centre was papered up to its retractable roof for the first four games in the annual series to make up for sales shortfalls owing to ridiculously priced tickets.

But starting last year, Rogers Media Inc. -- which pays the Bills for the right to relocate the team once a year -- not only further slashed ticket prices, but also stopped giving away tickets just to put bums in empty blue seats.

A crowd of 40,770 last December watched the streaking Seattle Seahawks obliterate Chan Gailey’s last bad Bills team, 50-17. That attendance figure is exactly 90% of the Rogers Centre’s 45,300 capacity for NFL football, and 93% of non-suite “in the bowl” capacity.

“Last year we started a no-comps policy, and we’re continuing that trend this year,” Bills in Toronto executive director Greg Albrecht said.

“It doesn’t help anybody when you start giving away tickets to any sort of event. Some people will say that there’s a real fine line between selling tickets and giving away tickets to fill a building and create atmosphere. But we think you create atmosphere by creating value in the ticket, so that’s what we’re continuing to do.”

Albrecht said they’ve sold about 82% of the tickets for Sunday’s game.

“That’s tracking almost equal to last year,” he said in a telephone interview.

It’s no secret the vast majority of Bills fans in Western New York, some 90 minutes to four hours away by car, refuse to come to the Toronto games.

They cite various reasons ... The tickets are too costly. Or it’s too far a drive. Or they can’t properly tailgate (as there are no huge parking lots in downtown Toronto, and drinking alcohol outside of licensed establishments is illegal in Ontario).

But they eschew mainly because, in their view, it’s tantamount to subsidizing their beloved team’s future relocation to T.O. -- every Western New York Bills fan’s worst nightmare.

But without providing specific numbers, Albrecht said ticket sales from Western New Yorkers are up slightly this year.

“It’s going to be about a 5% lift for people coming from Buffalo,” Albrecht said. “It’s definitely getting better.

“I think from this year on there will be an appreciable increase in Buffalo fans coming here because we have a lot of things to do here other than just the game. And I think our moniker of ‘This is the NFL, Toronto style’ is starting to bear a little bit of fruit, in terms of having those folks come up here on that weekend and enjoy the rest of what Toronto has to offer.”

Another reason for the slight bump in interest across the Niagara River is that the Bills aren’t entirely out of the playoff hunt. They’re only one game out of the second AFC wildcard playoff berth, although eight other teams are in that fight.

There’s also real hope for the future thanks to a new team president (Russ Brandon), new GM (Doug Whaley), new head coach (Doug Marrone) and new quarterback (first-round draft pick EJ Manuel).

Last year it was a shock to hear so many fans rooting for Seattle. Hundreds wore Seahawks gear.

The Falcons are unlikely to repeat that display. They were expected to be among the top teams in the NFL after finishing 10 yards from reaching last year’s Super Bowl. But a rash of key injuries dissolved those hopes.

The Falcons haven’t won since Oct. 20 and have scored more than 13 points only once since then. The team’s motto is “Rise Up” but few Falcons fans are expected to fly up for this game.

So it might actually even sound something like a Bills home game.

We'll say it again: Once the Bills start winning, all those fans of the team that crammed a convoy of buses to Orchard Park in the early '90s will be back on bandwagon.

And they'll make Bills in Toronto games a coveted ticket in this city -- and create nearly as much a homefield advantage for the Bills as Ralph Wilson Stadium.

Until then, this will have to do.

www.torontosun.com/2013/11/26/freebies-free-bills-in-toronto-game-expected-to-draw-40000

[mikecubs]

usatq.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/usatsi_7593117.jpg (view on the entire stadium, it reminds me of a Coyotes game)

[TheDeuce]

Dec 2, 2013 16:26:01 GMT -6 mikecubs said:

usatq.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/usatsi_7593117.jpg (view on the entire stadium, it reminds me of a Coyotes game)

There must be ownership issues. Why else would there be empty seats?





m.

[Bruinsfan]

almost every bills fan iv met is from rochester, That team is gigantic there, and its far away but the NFL covers a larger distance than most sports, strong metro area isnt necessary if there is a strong area. 1 game a week allows for travel to stadiums

[mikecubs]

I agree you can travel farther for NFL games (Green Bay-Milwaukee etc...) but still. The Bills are still one of the leagues weakest franchises. Even if you throw in Rochester(1.1M) to Buffalo(1.2M) and count part of Ontario Buffalo is still a smaller market. Worth having a team yes but still not that big of a market.