Raptors to play preseason games in Vancouver/Montreal

[mikecubs]

Toronto Raptors to play pre-season games in Vancouver and Montreal


The Toronto Raptors will play pre-season games in Vancouver and Montreal in October.

The Raptors, who are coming off their first playoff appearance in six seasons, face the Sacramento Kings at Rogers Arena in Vancouver on Oct. 5 and the New York Knicks at Bell Centre in Montreal on Oct. 24.

"We are honoured to play host to the Kings and Knicks as part of NBA Canada Series," president and GM Masai Ujiri said in a release. "Coming off an exciting 2013-14 season, we look forward to continuing to build our fan base across Canada."

This will be the Raptors' second pre-season visit to Vancouver. They beat the Phoenix Suns, 129-78, in 2010 in front of a crowd of 18,123.

The Raptors and Knicks have played twice in front of capacity crowds of 22,114 at Bell Centre, in 2010 and 2012. The Raptors won both.

The Raptors have played pre-season games in 11 Canadian cities outside of Toronto since 1995.

Seven Canadian players have been drafted into the NBA in the past three years, with eight currently featured on NBA rosters


www.vancouversun.com/sports/basketball/Toronto+Raptors+play+preseason+games+Vancouver+Montreal/9921521/story.html

[Bruinsfan]

NBA is out of american markets post seattle....

[mikecubs]

Pretty much unless you consider Vegas and last I heard the NBA isn't interested. Maybe in a couple decades NBA could go to a place like Omaha but not anytime soon. NBA's best chance for another market is probably Vancouver in another decade or 2ish.

[Bruinsfan]

Jun 25, 2014 11:33:56 GMT -6 mikecubs said:

Pretty much unless you consider Vegas and last I heard the NBA isn't interested. Maybe in a couple decades NBA could go to a place like Omaha but not anytime soon. NBA's best chance for another market is probably Vancouver in another decade or 2ish.

vegas is a bad spot for a league that suffers from broke retired players

[Bruinsfan]

I think KC Actually now that i think about it. They dont have a missouri or kansas team, two college bball rich areas

[mikecubs]

KC is too small for 3 teams 2.3M only. The other problem is the arena makes too much $$$ without a team and the mayor of KC likes this. Any KC team(NBA or NHL) would need a sweetheart deal to even think of it working.

The other thing is college Bball doesn't always translate to nba interest(see Memphis)

[Bruinsfan]

Jun 25, 2014 12:17:33 GMT -6 mikecubs said:

KC is too small for 3 teams 2.3M only. The other problem is the arena makes too much $$$ without a team and the mayor of KC likes this. Any KC team(NBA or NHL) would need a sweetheart deal to even think of it working.

The other thing is college Bball doesn't always translate to nba interest(see Memphis)

griz have been doing better, though it is a joke of a franchise




KC is the model for any city that thinks they need an anchor tenant. Its a myth.

[mikecubs]

YA, the Grizz have been averaging around 16,000 people lately which is a LOT better than the early years BUT that's still terrible considering a year ago they were in the Western Conference finals. 16,000 is probably the high point for the city. New Orleans did do better too last year(over 16,000) and they did renovate the arena and extend the lease until 2024. Still I'm not convinced either of these cities make it long term. They are both small, Memphis isn't growing much, New Orleans is but I think that is mostly people moving back after the hurricane. Pre Hurricane New Orleans was slow growth and poor.

[mikecubs]

Here is why I'm not sold on New Orleans/Memphis LONG term

Demographics of the NBA

1 New York Knicks/ 23,484,225
2 Brooklyn Nets 23,484,225
3 Los Angeles Lakers/ 18,351,929
4 Los Angeles Clippers 18,351,929
5 Chicago Bulls 9,912,730
6 *Washington Wizards 9,443,180
7 Toronto Raptors 8,759,312 (this is 2 year old data, go with 8,9M ish)
8 Golden State Warriors 8,469,854
9 Boston Celtics 8,041,303
10 Dallas Mavericks 7,206,144
11 Philadelphia 76ers 7,146,706
12 Houston Rockets 6,508,323
13 Miami Heat 6,447,610(go with 5.8M for the metro, 600,000 of this is over 100+miles)
14 Atlanta Hawks 6,162,195
15 Detroit Pistons 5,314,163(throw in about another 1M for Windsor and Toledo)
16 Phoenix Suns 4,398,762
17 Minnesota Timberwolves 3,797,883
18 Cleveland Cavaliers 3,501,538
19 Denver Nuggets 3,277,309 (consider another 1M for Colorado Springs and Fort Collins, at least partially count them)
20 Portland Trailblazers 3,022,178( subtract out 86,000 to 200,000 people, Counting Corvalis is a joke, Albany is boarderline)
21 Orlando Magic 2,975,658
22 Charlotte Hornets 2,493,040
23 Sacramento Kings 2,482,660 (subtract 100,000 because that area is around 100miles away)
24 Utah Jazz 2,389,225
25 Indiana Pacers 2,336,237
26 San Antonio Spurs 2,277,550 (very fast growth city, should be around 2.6M in 2020)
27 Milwaukee Bucks 2,040,498
28 New Orleans Pelicans 1,467,880
29 Oklahoma City Thunder 1,390,835 ( OKC is now a fast growing area and has loyal fans)
30 Memphis Grizzlies 1,369,006

Officially last Census Vancouver was 2.3M but other than Toronto Canada doesn't have combined statistical area. If it did Abbotsford would definitely be included plus Squamish and probably Chilliwack.

Abbotsford, BC MSA 170,191
Chilliwack, BC MSA 92,308
Squamish, BC 17,479

This would bring Vancouver up to 2,593,306 in 2011. Latest estimated data was from 2013. For estimated data StatsCan always overinflates the population so here is what I did. I took the 2011 census data and times it by the growth rate % on the estimated data instead of taking the outright number from the estimated data. Here is what I come up with for 2013

I come up with an additional 72,179 counting only Vancouver and Abbotsford. There is no data for the other 2. So I'd estimate Realistically in 2013 Vancouver was 2,665,485 people. Not enough for 2 teams YET especially when you subtract 10% for the Canadian dollar. Also note on this list about starting with number 20 Portland other than Milwaukee none of these teams goes up against another full time team(MLB/NHL). But in the 2020's when the leases run out in Memphis/New Orleans and Vancouver is over 3M I think things could get interesting.

[mikecubs]

Memphis attendance history

1st 3 years were at temp arena the Pyramid

Year/Team Average/League average/rank
2001-02 14,415 16,966 25 of 29
2002-03 14,983 16,887 24 of 29
2003-04 15,188 17,055 25 of 29

2004-05 16,862 17,319 19 of 30
2005-06 15,793 17,559 26 of 30
2006-07 14,655 17,759 30 of 30
2007-08 12,770 17,395 29 of 30
2008-09 12,680 17,503 30 of 30
2009-10 13,486 17,150 28 of 30
2010-11 14,651 17,317 27 of 30
2011-12 15,705 17,274 20 of 30
2012-13 16,625 17,347 19 of 30 Went to Western conference finals. This is the "high point"
2013-14 16,718 17,407 20 of 30


New Orleans history

2002-03 15,651 16,887 19 of 29
2003-04 14,332 17,055 28 of 29
2004-05 14,221 17,319 30 of 30
2005-06 17,485 17,559 NA** Only 3 home games due to hurricane
2006-07 17,129 17,759 NA** Only 6 home games due to hurricane
2007-08 14,181 17,395 26 of 30
2008-09 16,969 17,503 19 of 30
2009-10 15,131 17,150 23 of 30
2010-11 14,709 17,317 26 of 30
2011-12 15,110 17,274 24 of 30
2012-13 13,803 17,347 29 of 30
2013-14 16,391 17,407 21 of 30 This is the 1st year as the Pelicans and Tom Benson as owner instead of that creap George Shinn.

New Orleans lease is until 2024, Memphis 2027. If attendance don't improve and if the cities don't grow much or at all and Vancouver cracks the 3M mark when those leases runs out I'd really be tempted to go with Vancouver at that time.

[mikecubs]

Raptors to play pre-season game in Vancouver: Is the NBA testing the market?

Vancouver may have long ago lost the Grizzlies, however, by scheduling an exhibition game at Rogers Arena this fall, a well-known economist believes the NBA is testing the local market.

The Toronto Raptors, fresh off their first playoff appearance since 2008, play the Sacramento Kings in a pre-season game in Vancouver on Oct. 5, as part of an NBA Canada series that began two years ago. Rogers Arena, formerly GM Place, was the home of the Grizzlies franchise from 1995 to 2001, before it was relocated to Memphis in a move that left local fans bitter at the time.

“You want to keep testing the market. Not just theoretically with TV viewership but see how many people will actually show up for an exhibition game,” Glen Hodgson, senior vice-president and chief economist with the Conference Board of Canada and co-author of the book Power Play: The Business Economics of Pro Sports, told Metro.

Ideally, pro sports leagues would love to globalize.”

An increase in the region’s population, a stronger local economy and Canadian dollar are all factors that could land another professional sports franchise — likely a basketball team — in Vancouver in the next 20 years, said Hodgson.

A weak Canadian dollar in the late 1990s and early 2000s, combined with players getting paid in U.S. dollars, contributed not only to Vancouver losing its NBA franchise, but had a negative impact on Canada’s National Hockey League franchises, as well as the Montreal Expos in Major League Baseball.

“That hits everybody,” he said.

However, the process of expansion goes beyond just a positive sample size of one successful exhibition game in a market. There are other things to consider, like an expansion fee and the value of a franchise.

“When you look at the question of could an NBA team ever go back to Vancouver, I’d think it’s a bit more complicated than that,” said Dan MacKenzie, vice-president and general manager of NBA Canada.

“The most important one right now is the NBA Board of Governors hasn’t expressed any desire to expand. There’s been no indication that expansion is on the horizon. That’s No. 1.”

“There’s a variety of factors that play into it. And exhibition game success definitely is something that’s a piece of it. But the overall factors are more complex than that.”

Former NBA commissioner David Stern has expressed regret about what transpired in Vancouver.

There have also been reports that Francesco Aquilini, who owns the Canucks, had interest in bringing a NBA franchise to Vancouver. Then again, there have been other reports stating he is not pursuing a NBA team.

On the court, the Grizzlies were terrible. Not only did they fail to make the playoffs in each of their six seasons in Vancouver, they didn’t even come close.

Their best record in Vancouver occurred during their final season here, when they won 23 games and lost 59.

Basketball has enjoyed a recent boom in Canada, especially with Anthony Bennett of Brampton, Ont., going first overall in last year’s NBA Draft, and fellow Canuck Andrew Wiggins expected to be at least a top-five pick, if not the top selection, this year.

The L.A. Lakers selected Robert Sacre of North Vancouver in the second round of the 2012 draft. In his sophomore season, he averaged 5.4 points per game and almost 17 minutes per game.

“This is the first generation of kids who grew up in an era where there were teams in Canada, in both Vancouver and Toronto … I think that’s a big part of it,” said MacKenzie, adding basketball development in this country has improved, as have the opportunities for younger players north of the border to play in the U.S.

The NBA Canada series is designed to give fans in Canadian markets a chance to see live basketball when they otherwise might not be able to on a regular basis, said MacKenzie.

“Our goal is … trying to build basketball fans across the country,” he said. “We think that a live NBA experience is the best way to sell the game.”

The NBA has also recently played exhibition games in Vancouver, and there is even an online petition and Twitter group dedicated to trying to drum up support for bringing the league back.

“(It’s) well within the realm of possibility that Vancouver adds another franchise within the next 20 years,” said Hodgson.

“Could it happen right now? Well, critically you need an owner. The fan base has grown but adding another million makes a huge difference in our view. Got to have an owner. And has it been long enough? Has the bad taste of the Grizzlies leaving gone away?

“This market’s much stronger in terms of its appetite for pro sports than it was a decade ago.”

metronews.ca/news/victoria/1060312/nba-likely-testing-vancouver-market-economist-believes/

[Bruinsfan]

new orleans wont leave, NFL owner will keep them there....memphis...ya thats a joke i admit it.

[mikecubs]

New Orleans owner is 80plus years old. By 2024 he will be dead. Next owner may not care. Not saying either places are a lock to leave, I'm just not sold they are staying long term. Both cities are small, poor and crime holes that aren't really growing and have awful attendance histories. I just don't see the point of either team. Even in 2020 Vancouver wouldn't be great BUT at least Vancouver has upside since it's always growing since it is the best city in the world and many people want to live there.

[mikecubs]

Ton of stuff on Vancouver lately...

Could Vancouver support the return of an NBA franchise?

Although the first effort to establish a stable pro-basketball team in Vancouver resulted in an air ball, a new study argues the city could actually support the return of the National Basketball Association (NBA) sometime in the next 20 years.

The findings from the Conference Board of Canada come on the heels of the Toronto Raptors’ June 9 announcement Vancouver would host a pre-season game in October.

Conference Board of Canada’s chief economist Glen Hodgson, who co-authored the report, said two key factors point to Vancouver’s ability to support the NBA’s return.

The city’s projected population growth — the region is expected to reach 3.4 million residents by 2041, according to Metro Vancouver data — and the higher worth of the Canadian dollar make it much more economically viable, according to Hodgson.

He examined the conditions needed for a successful franchise based on market size, corporate presence, economic conditions, salary caps, ownership strength and playing facilities, among other factors.

“The Grizzlies left and people were kind of turned off from that at the time, so you have to rebuild the interest in the sport,” Hodgson said. “Having the right owner will make the difference.”

Norm O’Reilly, a sports business professor at Ohio University, said a very small proportion of owners buy teams for financial benefits.

If the potential owner is based outside of the city, he said, he or she is likely buying a team because of a passion for basketball. If they are a Vancouverite, they may be purchasing the team to raise their profile or give back to the community.

O’Reilly added Vancouver makes for a very attractive market since there is already an arena built downtown and any NBA team would be joining as the second tenant.

He said the likelihood of Vancouver landing an NBA franchise is the next 20 years is about 60%.

O’Reilly noted the potential for expansion is low right now, but some NBA teams are struggling financially and there is the possibility one of them could move to a different city.

Former NBA commissioner David Stern said on the Bill Simmons podcast in 2011 he regretted how the relocation situation played out with the Vancouver Grizzlies. He added there has been interest from other parties over the years in returning the NBA to the city.

The expansion team arrived on the West Coast in 1995 before moving to Memphis following the 2000-2001 season.

It came at time when the Canadian dollar was worth about USD 0.63, average per game attendance was less than 14,000 and the team posted just 23 wins in its final season.

But in 2012, Stern nixed the idea of introducing another expansion team into the league. He pointed out the NBA already had 30 teams and there likely wasn’t room for more.

There have, however, been a number of relocations within the NBA since the Grizzlies moved to Memphis.

Teams have relocated to Oklahoma City, New Orleans and New York City's Brooklyn borough, and there was also a concerted effort to move the Sacramento Kings to Seattle.

Hodgson said the new NBA commissioner, Adam Silver, might take a different approach than his predecessor.

“The NBA has been much more willing (than the NHL) to let franchises move,” he said, adding it’s unlikely the league would consider setting up a team in another part of Canada.

“There’s only two cities (Toronto and Vancouver) that have the right kind of diverse fanbase for NBA basketball.”

But Hodgson said he does not believe Vancouver could support a second NHL team.

“You have two teams competing in a market of 3.5 million people 20 years from now, that’s…kind of cannibalizing each other,” he said. “Whereas adding another sport, you add another slice of the fanbase.”

Vancouver Canucks and Rogers Arena co-owner Francesco Aquilini said in 2011 he might be willing to took a serious look at bringing the NBA back to the city sometime in the future.

He noted the arena’s floors, hoops and seats are “ready to plug and play” without any new capital investment.

But Aquilini also said he wouldn’t want to jeopardize the success of the hockey franchise with added competition

The October game in Vancouver will be the second time the Raptors have visited Rogers Arena for a pre-season visit since the Grizzlies left.

NBA Canada vice-president Dan MacKenzie said in a statement there has been a huge growth in the number of Canadians playing at a high level in the league.

The Raptors are also playing in Montreal this fall.

The study appeared in the book Power Play: The Business Economics of Pro Sports, published in March 2014.

www.biv.com/article/20140609/BIV0120/140609934/-1/BIV/could-vancouver-support-the-return-of-an-nba-franchise

[Bruinsfan]

www.timesdispatch.com/news/latest-news-ap/va-beach-mulls-arena-that-could-lure-nba-nhl/article_7585c79a-c7dc-11e3-82ca-001a4bcf6878.html