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Post by Bruinsfan on Dec 4, 2015 16:41:08 GMT -6
Kraft wasn't ever going to leave NE for St. Louis. LOL Kraft I think really feels Carson is the best choice and I respect that. Even though I feel he is wrong at least he thought it out and generally TRIED his best to do what he thought was the right thing. It's the family ownerships that I can't stand and will vote for Dean blindly because they think he is cool and they resent the rich guys who EARNED their money instead of inheriting it from daddy. None of the owners "deserve" LA. It shouldn't be a popularity contest to see who has the most friends. It should come down to 1. What is the best site 2. What will make the most money 3. What of the 3 markets is worth saving and has the most upside If Kroenke was to stay he'd have to have a guarantee in writing he can still move elsewhere. Spanos never just wanted LA, this is about punishing Kroenke and all the rich owners. Spanos just doesn't want LA he wants Kroenke stuck in St. Louis PERMANENTLY because he knows St. Louis sucks. Even if Kroenke goes year to year and in time the St. Louis deal evaporates Dean won't approve a relocation. Dean runs the league. If Dean says you stay the other owners wouldn't approve a move to San Antonio/London. So San Antonio/London are meaningless. There has been a long time civil war between the families vs. the self made billionares. Guys like Jones would get on guys like Ralph Wilson/Mike Brown for example because he said they weren't maximizing local revenues by selling stadium naming rights etc. The families resented stuff like this. They thought they shouldn't have to pull their weight and be allowed to make EMOTIONAL decisions over business. The business men couldn't understand this. That's why the LA thing is so screwed up. Both sides are blindly picking their side without any concern for what is best for the league or LA. All of the leagues relocation guidelines are being ignored by all 3 parties. It's a total debacle. oh hhhh no i dont mean that. Kraft hates st louis because he saved the team from relocation to st louis. Look it up. The St Louis stallions.
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Post by mikecubs on Feb 19, 2016 2:46:56 GMT -6
Commish Manfred talking to Bronfman, but no plans to relocate in MontrealRob Manfred said Tuesday that he continues to be optimistic about Montreal as a venue for baseball but said expansion or relocation of another team isn’t on the horizon. The Major League Baseball commissioner told the Canadian Baseball Network in a phone interview that he’s encouraged by what he sees as great support of exhibition games to be played at Olympic Stadium April 1-2. “I remain positive about Montreal as a market,’’ Manfred said. “I’m told that they are doing an absolutely fantastic job in ticket sales for the spring-training games for the Blue Jays and Red Sox. That is a great indicator of the market in Montreal. “We don’t have any teams to relocate and expansion is a longer-term project. We’re always monitoring potential markets and we are constantly updating information. Montreal is on the list.’’One reported ownership group involves Stephen Bronfman, son of Charles Bronfman, who was majority owner of the Expos from 1968 until the early 1990s when he sold to a consortium of shareholders. Others linked to Bronfman’s group are Dollarama department-store owner Larry Rossy and lawyer Mitch Garber. Bronfman didn’t return a call Tuesday, requesting his comments. “I have talked to Stephen Bronfman periodically about baseball in Montreal,’’ Manfred revealed in the interview. It’s known that former Expos outfielder Warren Cromartie has had dialogue on occasion with John McHale Jr. of the commissioner’s office. Cromartie has been the front man beating the drum for baseball’s return to Montreal for almost five years. “This year is a collective bargaining year and that will be our focus,’’ Manfred said. “Expansion isn’t a full-time thing for us this year.’’ Manfred also shot down an idea by Montreal French-language newspaper La Presse, which suggested a few days ago that the struggling Tampa franchise and Montreal share home games. Manfred preferred actually not to comment on the La Presse report and had public-relations guru Pat Courtney issue a statement. “Major League Baseball appreciates the commitment that Stu Sternberg has demonstrated to Tampa Bay Rays fans throughout his ownership of the franchise, as well as his long-standing efforts to bring a first-class ballpark to the region,’’ the statement read. “The Rays are conducting a comprehensive study of a new ballpark with local officials, and we look forward to examining the results of those efforts in the near future. It remains our clear preference to stay in markets where are clubs are located. “Regarding Montreal, the city has a long baseball tradition and has shown tremendous support as a host for exhibition games the last two seasons and upcoming games in the weeks ahead. We are excited to be playing games in Montreal again this spring,’’ the statement concluded. In the interview, Manfred said he was aware that the “Canadian dollar has gone down’’ and said that the metropolitan population of possible U.S. expansion sites such as Charlotte, N.C., San Antonio, Tex. and Portland, Ore. would be taken into consideration. The Greater Portland Area is considered the largest U.S. market without a major-league team but its population base of roughly 2.3-million people might not be enough to sustain a team. Portland also has an NBA team and there might not be a sufficient number of fans to support a second major sports team.
“Absolutely, the size of the market is important,’’ said Manfred, who added that Mexico is “an expansion alternative down the road, not an immediate one.’’As far as a new stadium in Montreal, something that Manfred thinks Montreal must look at more than anything, the commissioner said he didn’t see a lot of sense in renovating Olympic Stadium as an alternative. “I can’t comment on Olympic Stadium. Having not been there to see the condition it is in, I’m told that renovations to bring older stadiums up to standards are more expensive,’’ Manfred said. “My suggestion would be to renovate Olympic Stadium,’’ said former Expos minority shareholder Mark Routtenberg. “That probably wouldn’t be a very popular move with baseball people and mayor Denis Coderre but it makes sense. It would be cheaper than building a $700-million stadium downtown. “You could fix up Olympic Stadium, get better sight lines and put in a new roof and it would be a lot cheaper than building downtown. You could probably fix up Olympic Stadium for about $350-million but I don’t think the mayor or anyone in baseball would agree with that idea.’’ Routtenberg also said it would be cheaper if a current franchise like Tampa was relocated to Montreal. “You could let the owner of the incoming team have a 51 per cent interest and then you could bring in local investors,’’ Routtenberg said Tuesday. “Bringing in another team would make the financial equation a lot easier. It would probably cost one-billion dollars to support an expansion franchise, although it would likely be supported by various levels of government.’’ Here was my farewell comment to Manfred: a new team for Montreal in 2019, the 50th anniversary of the Expos’ first season in 1969. Not really commenting per se on my suggestion, Manfred had a good laugh and said he had to go. Thanks for your time, Rob. www.canadianbaseballnetwork.com/canadian-baseball-network-articles/2016/2/16/commish-manfred-talking-to-bronfman-but-no-plans-to-relocate-in-montreal
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Post by mikecubs on Feb 19, 2016 3:00:29 GMT -6
Montreal's greatest problem is the lack of an expansion partner moreso than even a new park or Canadian dollar.
Portland is too small for a 2nd full time team yet and is corporate poor. The other problem with them is IF it ever did become big enough for another team is that there is a ready made building for the NHL. Besides that you have the problem with the Seattle Mariners. They are on record saying if a team ever came to Portland they want compensation. Another problem is ballpark. Given the size of Portland you'd need politicians who would be willing to be totally ripped off. Portland would NEVER go for that. Portland ISN'T so dumb southern suburb chasing NHL or some idiotic rust belt trying to support 1 team too many. You'd have a massive hippie uprising if a mayor said ya we will pay for 75% of a new park.
San Antonio is growing fast but is relatively poor. The problem with them is IF they ever went for another team it will be NFL. Football in Texas is king.
Charlotte just opened a new minor league park and the mayor is on record saying the city needs at least another 20 years of population growth until they can support MLB.
I just don't see Mexico City. It's huge but Mexico is a 3rd world country with safety problems. You think the Canadian dollar is bad at 73c. The Peso is at 55c.
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Post by mikecubs on Mar 6, 2016 0:55:26 GMT -6
^^^^ Big mistake I made. I misread the dollar converter for the Mexican peso. The Canadian dollar is now 0.75 which equals 75 cents The Mexican peso is now 0.056 which equals 5.6 cents. I MISSED the 0 in front of the 56. Mexico City is NOT going to happen with a 5.6 cent peso. Could you imagine what would happen if the Canadian dollar dropped to 5.6 cents? The Coyotes would be generating much more revenue than Canadian NHL teams. LOL
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Post by mikecubs on Jul 11, 2017 22:45:25 GMT -6
Montreal, Mexico City and Charlotte possible candidates for MLB expansionMLB commissioner Rob Manfred has indicated that Montreal, Mexico City and Charlotte could all be candidates for expansion teams. When asked at Monday's All-Star game FanFest about the future of MLB and possible expansion, Manfred intimated a new team is not in the immediate future. However, he did broach the subject of MLB returning to Montreal, a city that has long since clamoured for professional baseball to come back, with the Expos having left in 2004 to become the Washington Nationals. "I know the Mayor of Montreal has been very vocal about bringing baseball back to Montreal," Manfred said. "Charlotte's a possibility. And I'd like to think that Mexico City or some other place in Mexico would be a possibility." It has been nearly 20 years since MLB expanded with the addition of the Florida Marlins and Arizona Diamondbacks in 1998, but Manfred's focus right now appears to be on resolving issues surrounding current franchises. "I think for us to expand we need to be resolved in Tampa and Oakland in terms of their stadium situations,” he said. "As much as I hope that both Oakland and Tampa will get stadiums, I think it would be difficult to convince the owners to go forward with an expansion until those situations are resolved." Mexico City is home to one of six MLB offices outside the U.S. and has hosted several exhibition games between big league clubs. Tony Clark, executive director of the MLBPA, said this week the Los Angeles Dodgers and San Diego Padres could play a regular-season series in Mexico City as soon as next season. Charlotte, the lone domestic location of the three mentioned, already supports NFL and NBA franchises. The Triple-A Charlotte Knights led Minor League Baseball with an average attendance of 8,974 fans a game in 2016. However, BB&T Ballpark, the stadium the Knights have called home since its construction in 2014, reportedly cannot be retrofitted to accommodate major-league specifications. sports.yahoo.com/montreal-mexico-city-charlotte-possible-133530604.html
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 23, 2017 22:50:33 GMT -6
Tampa officials focusing on Channel District-Ybor for potential Rays ballparkOfficials trying to lure the Tampa Bay Rays across the water are aggressively working to secure a site for a ballpark in the Channel District-Ybor City area, and hope to make an announcement soon. Hillsborough County and its lawyers have had dozens of conversations this year with the Rays, its financing team at Goldman Sachs and Populous, the architect for the new ballpark, according to legal records. They've discussed financing options, reviewed sites and compared economic development proposals. More recently, they have spoken with land owners about assembling a package of parcels that can fit a ballpark, Hillsborough County Commissioner Ken Hagan confirmed recently. And they're looking to the Atlanta Braves for ideas on how to pay for it. At the same time, direct talks with the Rays front office have slowed during the dog days of the baseball season and a hotly contested St. Petersburg mayoral race. Lawyers for the county spoke with the Rays front office 24 times between February and March, but only eight times in the three months after, according to invoices from Foley and Lardner, the law firm the county hired to spearhead the site search and negotiations. And there is lingering frustration the team has not demonstrated enough urgency in its search for a new ballpark. "The team has been arguing for a new home for eight-plus years," Hagan said. "It doesn't need to take years to create the partnership required for a new ballpark, but it does take leadership at the ownership level to get us across the finish line." Richard Danielson ✔ @danielson_Times Hillsborough officials looking hard at this corner of Ybor City for potential Rays ballpark www.tampabay.com/news/tampa-officials-focusing-on-channel-district-ybor-for-potential-rays/2334502 … via @scontorno @tb_Times As recently as late July, Rays principal owner Stuart Sternberg said the team was waiting for Tampa and Hillsborough County to present a viable option and challenged them to "completely weigh in." "When they do then we'll be able to make a decision in a pretty quick time," he said. Such dueling sentiments echo a rift first unveiled earlier this year. During spring training, Sternberg acknowledged that the team's top fives sites for a ballpark were not available. Three were in Tampa, including the Heights, a 43-acre mixed-use project taking shape in downtown Tampa along a bend in the Hillsborough River. At the time, Hagan shot back that the team was too slow to act and let those sites get away. Since then, whether by choice or necessity, Hillsborough officials have tried to identify a site behind the scenes while the Rays have stayed relatively quiet. Monthly invoices show frequent contact with lawyers contracted by Foley and Lardner, a firm with extensive experience in stadium projects for which they earn a monthly $4,500 retainer and $325 an hour. The officials are narrowing in on the Channel District-Ybor City area and have approached landowners about an option agreement that would secure the rights to those parcels if the Rays chose to move.There are still moving pieces, Hagan cautioned, but "that fits perfectly in our belief that the ballpark needs to be in an urban environment. It also aligns with many of the Ray's guiding principles for their next ballpark." "Our outside counsel has repeatedly said the next step is to get site control," Hagan said. "Once we have site control we can go public and hope to have that earnest dialogue on the location and get the community feedback on the possibilities that exist there." The area south and east of a roundabout off Nuccio Parkway not far from the gates of Ybor City "has received a lot of attention," Tampa Mayor Bob Buckhorn said, "and I think it's appropriate." He wouldn't say it was the leading site, adding there were "other potential parcels," but said it's walkability to downtown, space for parking and access to the TECO streetcar line are an advantage. "Far better," Buckhorn said, than the area in Ybor east of the revamped 22nd Street, another rumored site. An investor group led by BluePearl Veterinary Services CEO Darryl Shaw has bought quite a few sizable parcels off Nuccio Parkway and the surrounding area in recent years, with the largest flurry of activity coming in the past 18 months. TECO and a couple of investment firms out of New York own some land there as well. Shaw did not respond to a request for comment. Asked in April whether he spoke with the Rays brass about a particular parcel, the former gasification plant called Gas Worx, Shaw said, "they don't believe a ballpark can fit on that site." But Buckhorn pointed out it could become a parking lot or support development. Hagan said he also regularly meets with S. Kay Andrews, the publisher of the Florida Sentinel Bulletin and the leader of the nonprofit that owns the Tampa Park Apartments. The housing complex, just west of Shaw's land near Ybor, is often mentioned as a potential future home for the Rays. The Tampa Bay Times recently reportedly that the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development put the owners of Tampa Park Apartments on notice that they could lose their Section 8 rent subsidies after a substandard inspection. The Rays have not publicly weighed in on potential Tampa locations for a ballpark, though Sternberg said in July that team leaders "have sites in mind." County Attorney Chip Fletcher said, "We've gotten some mixed messages on what the Rays think about our site options." Hagan could not give a timeline on when the county might announce a potential site. He anticipates, however, that the Rays don't want to be accused of influencing the St. Petersburg mayoral race and therefore won't weigh in on where they're going until it's over. The team is also in the middle of a competitive baseball season and negotiations over the rights to a new television contract. If incumbent Mayor Rick Kriseman, former mayor Rick Baker or the other candidates don't get 50 percent of the vote in the Aug. 29 election, it will go to a runoff in November. In his conversations with the Rays, Hagan said he was told they don't believe the election will affect an agreement reached with Kriseman to allow the team three years to consider a new home in Hillsborough County. The county may not wait until the Rays are ready to announce a site, Hagan said. One area of near certainty is how the county would like to pay for a ballpark. Officials are hoping to mimic the pact between the Atlanta Braves and Cobb County, Ga., that led to the new SunTrust Park.
Cobb County borrowed $397 million to finance the stadium and the team contributed $230 million.
The public-private partnership relied on the potential growth in taxes collected on development and entertainment around the stadium. The new ballpark is just a piece of a massive development and entertainment district around the new Braves home for fans and a growing community.
Hagan and county Chief Financial Officer Bonnie Wise visited with the Braves front office in April."It really is the model for future ballparks and the important thing is the paradigm for stadium financing continues to include increased team participation," Hagan said. "The days of 100 percent taxpayer funded stadiums are long gone." Sternberg and the Rays have not recently said whether they want a stake in development around the ballpark. The concept is certainly en vogue among owners looking to capitalize on entertainment expenses before and after games, as well as the growth from people who want to live, work and play near a stadium, especially in urban cores. You don't have to look far for an example: It's exactly what Tampa Bay Lightning owner Jeff Vinik is building around Amalie Arena. "The only way that people who live here pay is by attending a game or going to bars and restaurants around the stadium or have a home or business in that district," County Administrator Mike Merrill said. "But it's all hopefully generating even more revenue, and is an asset that's bringing more for the community, not less." www.tampabay.com/news/tampa-officials-focusing-on-channel-district-ybor-for-potential-rays/2334502
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 27, 2017 17:50:55 GMT -6
Romano: Everything you need to know about the Rays and Ybor CityFinally, the perfect spot for a baseball stadium in Tampa Bay. It only took 35 years and a collective case of desperation to find. I jest, of course. The still-unannounced site on the edge of Ybor City isn't really the perfect spot for baseball. Unfortunately, the Florida Aquarium, Amalie Arena, the convention center and every other waterfront business in downtown Tampa claimed most of the perfect spots a while back. What the Ybor City site represents is the best of what's left. Or maybe what's obtainable. Either way, a Tampa Bay Rays fan had better hope a financing plan can be cobbled together because it doesn't seem like Major League Baseball is terribly impressed with other bay area alternatives. And we've been looking, off and on, since the 1980s. So as we wait for the final pieces of the Ybor plan to come together before an official declaration of the site sometime this fall or winter, here's some questions you might have. What makes Ybor City the best site?
First, think about the Rays' main objective. They want to sell more season tickets to more corporations. That means getting as close to the market's business center as possible. And that means downtown Tampa. Since most of downtown is already accounted for, Ybor City is the next-best alternative.Also, think about previous sites the Rays considered but had to abandon for various reasons. Al Lang Stadium? Albert Whitted Airport? The old Tampa Tribune site? Hills-borough River near the Straz Center? What do they all have in common? They are waterfront properties. Since baseball, by itself, has not taken off in Tampa Bay, the idea is to build a stadium that becomes a destination point. While the Ybor site may not qualify as waterfront, it could be within a few blocks of the Ybor Channel. And that could be a great excuse to bring in restaurants and bars on land that is, frankly, under-utilized right now. The Tampa Port could, conceivably, find alternative venues for ship repairs and other marine business currently in that spot. Is there room in Ybor City? The short answer is yes. Developers have been buying up land with the idea of turning site control over to Hillsborough County for what will likely be a nominal fee. The payoff for the developers is other land they have acquired will suddenly become far more valuable if a baseball stadium is built. The Rays, meanwhile, will not require a ton of space. What they want is a stadium that can be integrated into Ybor City. A neighborhood stadium, so to speak. In that sense, think of a modern version of Wrigley Field. It will be small, maybe 32,000 seats. And it will have some of the flavor of Ybor and its history. At most, the stadium will likely occupy 15 acres. It would be within walking distance of Ybor City garages, and probably no more than a mile from Channelside Bay Plaza. What does this mean for Tropicana Field? There was a time when I, and a lot of others, thought rebuilding on the Tropicana site would be a safe fallback position if land or financing could not be found in Tampa. I don't think that's likely now. Twenty seasons of baseball later, the Rays are a disaster at the gate. And that's not hyperbole. Tampa Bay will finish in the bottom three for attendance for the seventh consecutive season, and that includes three seasons when the team won 90 or more games. Sadly, that's not even the worst part. It's the gap between Tampa Bay and everyone else. If you double the Rays' attendance, they would still be behind 14 other teams. That is a remarkable chasm. And it's been that way the past three years. So it's hard to imagine that a new stadium on the same site would boost attendance, or franchise value, enough to be worth the investment. I'm not even sure the Rays would agree to a new stadium there even if they didn't have to pay a dime for it. That's because the team's value could potentially be higher if the Rays just wait for the Tropicana Field lease to end in 2027. At that point, the franchise wouldn't be tied to a ballpark and could be sold to an out-of-market owner. So is there another possibility in Pinellas? Owner Stu Sternberg said at least one other site remains a possibility on that side of the bay. All indications are that is the Derby Lane site, but that still carries lots of questions. For the moment, Ybor City seems like the clear favorite. Does that mean this is a done deal? Far from it. Stadium costs are growing rapidly. When the Rays first proposed a stadium on the Al Lang site in 2007, the cost was likely in the $450 million range. By the time construction would start on a new stadium in Ybor — depending on the retractable roof situation — the cost could be closer to $800 million. Hillsborough officials will likely expect it to be a 50-50 split of public and private dollars, but it's hard to imagine the Rays investing more than $200 million. That means there had better be some creative financing involved. In other words, the battle is just beginning. www.tampabay.com/news/business/romano-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-rays-and-ybor-city/2335274Pic of where this is compare to downtown
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Post by mikecubs on Nov 30, 2017 2:27:47 GMT -6
Stu Cowan: It wasn't a good week for Montreal baseball fansBut former Expo Warren Cromartie of the Montreal Baseball Project insists city hasn't struck out when it comes to bringing back MLB team. This was not a good week for Montreal baseball fans hoping for a return of the Expos. Last Sunday night, Denis Coderre was voted out as mayor of Montreal, losing to Valérie Plante. Coderre was one of the biggest Expos fans in Montreal and a driving force behind bringing Major League Baseball back to the city.Then a report came out about an investigation by the CBC, Radio-Canada and the Toronto Star that found Stephen Bronfman and his Montreal-based investment company Claridge Inc., were key players linked to a US$60-million offshore trust in the Cayman Islands that might have cost Canadians millions of dollars in unpaid taxes. Bronfman and Mitch Garber are two of the big Montreal businessmen involved in trying to bring the Expos back. On Monday, Bronfman insisted he has “never funded or used offshore trusts.” Later in the week came news the Quebec government had given the go-ahead to replace the infamous roof at Olympic Stadium at an estimated cost of between $200 and $250 million — roughly half the estimated cost of new downtown ball park. There are plenty of Expos fans who believe the Big O — which was never a friendly place for baseball — played a big role in the departure of the team. That’s three strikes, but former Expo Warren Cromartie insists it doesn’t mean Montreal is out when it comes to bringing Major League Baseball back. “I look at this as a baseball game and now we got a new pitcher, so we got to make adjustments,” Cromartie, who founded The Montreal Baseball Project five years ago with a goal of bringing a team back to the city, said during a phone interview this week from Tokyo, where he is working with MLB Japan and the History Channel. “We haven’t spoken to (Plante), I don’t know what her plans are. I guess when we sit down and talk with her we’ll figure it all out. But it’s not something that we’re just not going to do anymore … that’s not going to happen. We’re going to sit down with her and talk about it. “I still do believe that Montreal needs the Expos and the Expos need Montreal.” Coderre definitely believes Montreal needs the Expos, but Plante doesn’t seem so sure. During a French-language debate before the election, Plante criticized Coderre for what she described as behind-the scenes negotiations to spend taxpayers’ money on a new stadium. Plante said she wasn’t against the Expos returning, but promised a referendum on a new ball park if it involved taxpayers’ money.[/u] Coderre wasn’t interested in a referendum, possibly because he knew what the result would be. Taxpayers have become less willing over the years to have governments shell out public money to wealthy owners for new stadiums where they can charge fans big money to watch millionaire athletes play a game. In Calgary, the NHL’s Flames are looking for a new arena with taxpayer money involved and tried to turn it into an election issue when they walked away from the negotiation table last month. But it backfired when Calgarians re-elected mayor Naheed Nenshi, a man NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said was apathetic at best about keeping the Flames in Calgary with a new arena. When asked about the Expos after his election loss, Coderre said: “The dream is still there. I’m still nuts about it.” But how many taxpayers are nuts about spending money on a new ball park that would have to be filled 81 times a year in a city that has become more Canadiens obsessed than ever to the detriment of the Impact and Alouettes, who only have 17 and nine home games, respectively, each season and can’t sell out their stadiums? If the Expos aren’t winning, would Montrealers still go after the novelty of a new stadium wears off?“I don’t feel personally any type of setback or anything with this,” Cromatie said after Coderre’s defeat. “I came into this thing just myself five and a half years ago (with the Montreal Baseball Project) when nobody was talking baseball and look where we’ve gotten to now. Baseball has this tremendous way of transcending through politics, through uneasy times. It always has a way of finding itself and that’s what baseball does. We still have the support. “I believe in Stephen Bronfman,” the former Expo added. “He is the one who’s going to make it all happen, along with myself and the rest of the group. He’s the one that I went to when I wanted to try and formulate this group and I still believe in what he’s doing. I have his back. He’s going to be a part of this thing. He’s going to be there when it happens … Garber, too. I know them both on a personal level and they’re baseball fans. They want it to happen. We still have that group maintained and I’m there.” The question is how many others are still with him? montrealgazette.com/sports/baseball/stu-cowan-it-wasnt-a-good-week-for-montreal-baseball-fans
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Post by mikecubs on Nov 30, 2017 2:47:51 GMT -6
Coderre says he's done with municipal politics. The current mayor isn't as important as future mayors. Tampa has a 100% iron clad lease until 2027, Oakland won't know until 2021 if they get a stadium or not due to planning/environmental reviews. So for these 4 years it don't matter who the mayor is. But for Expos fans it would have been nice if Coderre won then won a few more terms.
The $200-$250M for Olympic stadium is INSANE! Someone needs to stop that nonsense. If Montrealers would spend less time on conspiracy theories(Bud/Loria killed the Expos) and more time on pushing for that $$$ to go to a new park maybe they'd at least have a shot.
I still think this whole thing is a hoax/leverage play by MLB to get Tampa to pay up for a new downtown stadium. Unlike Oakland which would be a top quarter revenue team with a new park and will 100% privately finance their park, Tampa would be just passable/on the lower end even with a new park. The Rays are asking for $650M of public money for a $800M park.
With Montreal being the 20th biggest market if they had a team(and not growing that fast) and a 78 cent dollar I don't think MLB wants to come back unless 100% forced(Oakland or Tampa fail). If they ever got new parks MLB I doubt MLB would give Montreal the time of day. With a low dollar, the way it ended last time, not that big a city by baseball standards, having to bring in a 2nd expansion partner in either the 3rd world(Mexico City) or a much smaller than Montreal American city(Charlotte/San Antonio/Portland/Vegas) I just don't see it.
Of course this is all a moot point because Olympic Stadium will ALWAYS come 1st and no amount of money for it is too much.
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Post by mikecubs on Feb 16, 2018 21:56:26 GMT -6
The owing never ends at the Big OIt costs $32-million a year to operate and needs an expensive new roof, but the well-known, barely serviceable white elephant will survive because the cost to tear it down is even higher The Big O isn’t much of a baseball park, with dim light and long-distance sight lines. The venue’s echo makes it even worse for concerts. The stadium can be fine for occasional football or soccer games – provided the teams can fill the place with fans to turn drab concrete festive. Plus, those balls are big enough to be seen from far away. When it comes to the usual vocations of a massive domed coliseum, Montreal's Olympic Stadium is a well-known, barely serviceable white elephant. It is also, however, the perfect trap. Quebec's provincial government, owner of Canada's biggest stadium, will spend $200-million to $300-million to replace the Big O's 20-year-old roof, a public-safety hazard peppered with 8,000 patched holes. On hearing the news, critics familiar with the stadium's flaws, the $32-million the province spends each year to run and fix it, and the $1.5-billion, 30-year saga to pay for construction, immediatey asked, "Why not just tear it down?" The answer irritates many sports fans, taxpayers and economists: Montreal's Olympic Stadium is preserved thanks to a combination of inertia, nostalgia, civic pride, cheap land, small-scale usefulness, solid concrete and the province's preference for a predictable annual budget over fear of runaway demolition and redevelopment costs. More than $100-million has been steadily sunk into fixing up the stadium in the past decade and a similar amount is being spent over the next 10 years – not including the roof. "When you add up all the factors, there really is no choice but to put on a new roof. It's unavoidable," says Julie Boulet, the Quebec Tourism Minister, who is in charge of the stadium. "When you add up all the elements, logic dictates it." While the stadium still hosts the occasional soccer and baseball game, its two major vocations are as tourist attraction and landlord for occasional events and a number of permanent tenants. The main bowl is only usable half the year because the roof risks collapse with even a three-centimetre snowfall. A new roof should fix that. With its landed-spaceship look and leaning tower offering the best view of the city, it draws hundreds of thousands of visitors each year. "There's no doubt that, from an outside point of view, it has iconic value as a symbol of Montreal," said Elsa Lam, editor of the upcoming book Northern Building: Canadian Architecture, 1967-2017, which has a chapter dedicated to the stadium. "I don't think you'd get architects out with placards to save it from demolition, but it is special." Since embarking on a relaunch plan in 2012, stadium managers have carved out useful spaces inside the incredible hulk. Beneath the leaning tower, the province renovated five of the stadium's six Olympic pools and built a national training centre for elite amateur athletes. On a recent weekday, aspiring Olympian fencers thrust and parried, judoka wrestled and ordinary gym rats lifted weights in the spacious and bright training rooms beneath the immense grey, cantilevered pillars. Young athletes tried out for the national synchronized swim team in one pool while several dozen seniors exercised in another. The stadium has become one of the nicest recreational hubs in the city for Hochelaga-Maisonneuve, one of Montreal's poorest neighbourhoods. An elevator ride leads to tower floors that were dormant for 30 years and are now being renovated into a workplace for 1,000 Desjardins Group credit-union employees. The stadium has 700 other tenants, many of them non-profit and sporting organizations. Despite the hum of activity, the stadium will never pay for itself, the chief manager readily admits. "Because we have no sports teams, a lot of people in Canada and Quebec think nothing happens at the stadium," said Michel Labrecque, president of Parc Olympique, the provincial agency that runs the stadium. "But we're holding trade shows and shooting movies in here 150 to 180 days a year. People don't realize it." In the corridors of power in the stadium and in Quebec City, decision makers firmly believe demolition would be ruinously expensive and would leave a gaping 10-block hole. One estimate years ago suggested a tear-down could cost up to $700-million, a figure the study author said was a worst-case scenario. No stadium demolition in North America has ever cost one-20th of that, but Mr. Labrecque points out that no other stadium was built with high-tension concrete and cables, a 165-metre tower, a 4,000-spot underground parking lot, unknown levels of asbestos to decontaminate and a Metro line running beneath it all. "It's not going to get done for $50- or $100-million, that much I can guarantee," Mr. Labrecque said. Unlike politicians and civil servants, economists seem more ready to knock it down. Andrew Zimbalist, a U.S. sports economist, says spending hundreds of millions of dollars to maintain the Big O's current use "is silly."
"It might cost a lot to tear down but it costs an enormous amount to operate," Dr. Zimbalist said. "If major-league baseball comes back, it won't be in the Olympic Stadium. Losing a trade show or two a year doesn't justify $32-million a year and hundreds of millions more for a roof. You could build a pretty nice pool and gym for that."
Dr. Zimbalist said pouring more public money into the Big O can only harm the long-term prospects of bringing back major-league baseball, which will require a modern downtown ballpark that would probably need public funds to get off the ground. "The baseball commissioner was very clear you'd need a new stadium, something modern and better located. If you want baseball you should tear it down and bite the bullet," Dr. Zimbalist said.[/u] The stadium may live forever on inertia since it was born from it. In 1912, the old municipality of Maisonneuve set aside the site for a sports and recreation area. In a twist befitting the stadium nicknamed the Big Owe, Maisonneuve went broke and was absorbed by Montreal. Camillien Houde was elected mayor of Montreal in 1928 and immediately started failed lobbying attempts to host the Olympics and build a stadium. He broke ground in 1938 after winning a bid to hold the 1942 British Empire Games, and then war cancelled everything. The sloped spot was used for sledding. Jean Drapeau won the mayor's chair in 1960, bringing ambition and insouciance about cost. The successful Expo 67 set the stage for the winning 1976 Olympic bid. The reason for the stadium's endurance also lies in the heart of many Quebeckers, who have come to accept that Montreal's biggest landmark is an ambitious but flawed reflection of where they live. A poll conducted a few years ago by Léger showed about 80 per cent of Quebeckers believed the stadium is an important part of Montreal and that the roof should be replaced. With renovations, regular inspections and a new roof, engineers project the stadium will function until 2066. www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/the-owing-never-ends-at-the-big-o-montreals-olympicstadium/article37169871/
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Post by mikecubs on Feb 16, 2018 22:03:14 GMT -6
Another take on this madness! Jack Todd: Brother, can you spare another quarter (billion) for Big Owe?From its inception in the early 1970s well into the new millennium, the Big O has been a clown stadium, an ugly, ruinously expensive concrete stain on this city, The Big Owe is the gift that keeps on taking. Got a spare dollar? If you do, the Olympic Stadium would be only too happy to swallow it for you. From its inception in the early 1970s well into the new millennium, it has been a clown stadium, an ugly, ruinously expensive concrete stain on this city, a money-gorging rat-hole down which whole generations of weak-kneed, jelly-spined politicians have happily poured our hard-earned tax dollars. It is civic folly taken to its illogical extreme, madness as a way of life. The Big O has been an accessory to murder in the death of the Expos and the debt left by the stadium is one of the reasons Montreal ceded its place as Canada’s first city to ghastly Toronto and yet the stade goes on gobbling vast sums of money, with no end in sight. It’s as though we have chosen to share the island with an especially rapacious dragon. Every night, the dragon ventures down Mount Royal to munch another thousand citizens — but when we ask why this is allowed to go on, we’re told: “But we’ve already fed it so many people. If we stop now, all that will be wasted!” It’s high time someone worked up the political courage to slay the dragon. Instead, the sad-sack Liberal government of Philippe Couillard has elected to pour “at least” $200 million into a new roof for an old debacle. In these parts, that “at least” translates to a minimum of 25 per cent of the original estimate — so figure $250 million. Of course, we’re told it would also cost an astronomical sum to tear the beast down — but any figures emanating from the Olympic Installations Board are highly suspect. Originally created to rescue the stadium construction and the 1976 Olympic Games from Jean Drapeau’s bungling, the IOB has become a self-perpetuating bureaucracy. Of course, they’re going to tell you it would cost a fortune to tear it down when their jobs would vanish in the dust of the stadium. It’s unfortunate newly elected Mayor Valérie Plante has shown no more imagination than previous mayors and premiers going all the way back to Drapeau and Robert Bourassa. This has been a collective failure for decades and spilling its taint over all political parties, yet Plante gave the new roof an enthusiastic endorsement in a radio interview prior to her election. There is, however, more than ample time for sober second thought. I would rather see this city spend half a billion dollars on a new ballpark than half that on a new roof. A new baseball stadium as the jewel of a development in the old Goose Village neighbourhood might, if it’s managed correctly, pay for itself through investment in the area and economic development. A new roof on an old folly will do neither, despite the wishful thinking emanating from the OIB and the provincial government. Apparently, the proposed new roof would be retractable, in a sense. Not the kind where you push a button and 20 minutes later you’re looking at blue sky, but a roof that could be rolled back in a week or so to accommodate an event like the 2026 FIFA World Cup. So if you want to overlook FIFA’s tendency to make off with everything that isn’t nailed down while leaving host nations with the bills, sort of retractable might sort of work. But we have already sunk at least $1.47 billion in the Big O. For that tidy sum, we have received four decades worth of headaches — and counting. I realize the equivalency is less than exact, but it would be far better to divert the funds for the roof to a new ballpark that would actually attract something to this city, rather than maintaining a highly dubious structure for another decade or two. Now that the autocratic and secretive Denis Coderre is out of the picture, I have much more faith in businessmen Stephen Bronfman and Mitch Garber to create a workable baseball project in tandem with the city. I don’t believe in out-and-out public handouts for any pro sports facility, but there are ways these things can be done in the open, with mutual benefit to developers and taxpayers. As for the alleged $700-million figure floated for demolition of the stadium, a Gazette investigation four years ago found all kinds of holes in the OIB’s preposterous numbers and quoted Kevin Callahan of the U.S. firm that tore down Yankee Stadium in New York for a cost of $23 million as saying: “I can’t imagine anything within a multiple of that (the $23-million figure) short of having a nuclear reactor underneath.”
There is no nuclear reactor at the Big O, but the place is radioactive. Surely, we have endured enough. This is a building that once shed a 60-tonne concrete block — I have spent thousands of hours within that structure and not once felt entirely safe. I understand there is a sort of emotional attachment to the Big O. It’s like spending 40 years with a hated spouse — no matter how bitter the hatred, you miss them when they’re gone. But it’s a good kind of hurt. montrealgazette.com/sports/jack-todd-brother-can-you-spare-another-quarter-billion-for-big-owe
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Post by wolfmannick on Apr 5, 2018 13:58:07 GMT -6
Mayor Valerie Plante will meet with the potential investors who hope to bring major league baseball back to Montreal.
Plante said this week she will sit down with businessmen Stephen Bronfman and Mitch Garber on Friday to gather information on the project and see what role the city may play in getting a team.
Montreal has been without a franchise since the Expos were moved to Washington D.C., and renamed the Nationals after the 2004 season. Bronfman and Garber lead a group looking to land a team either through expansion or the relocation of an existing club.
Bringing back the Expos was a pet project of former mayor Denis Coderre, but Plante vowed during her successful election campaign last fall not to commit any money to a baseball team without a referendum.
Plante's stance may have softened after Bronfman said last week they were not seeking money from city hall but need its support in other areas.
"Already it's a better deal," Plante said after an executive committee meeting this week.
While the meeting has stirred hope for baseball's return, Garber played down the importance of the meeting on Twitter.
"There is a lot of speculation about the meeting with @val_Plante," he wrote. "The (mayor) has never met Stephen Bronfman and has communicated a desire to get to know a cross-section of Montreal business leaders and also to hear about the potential for baseball in Montreal. Nothing more."
Bringing back baseball would be a major investment, not only in paying for a team but also building a stadium.
Major League Baseball is considering expansion, while teams that may be contemplating relocation include Oakland and Tampa Bay.
Plante did not attend a pair of pre-season games at Olympic Stadium last week between the Toronto Blue Jays and St. Louis Cardinals, but city representatives were present.
Robert Beaudry, the executive committee member responsible for economic development, said the city would also be open to a National Basketball Association team if investors are found. The city's chamber of commerce indicated this week it would collaborate with a group led by former federal cabinet minister Michael Fortier that is studying the possibility of landing an NBA team.
An NBA franchise could play at the Bell Centre, saving the cost of building a venue, but several cities are reportedly looking for a team and expansion fees would likely be steep.
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Post by mikecubs on Apr 9, 2018 4:15:16 GMT -6
'I'm in,' says Valérie Plante on possible return of Major League Baseball to MontrealMontreal mayor brought up to speed at 1st meeting with potential investors Mitch Garber, Stephen Bronfman Montreal Mayor Valérie Plante says she's "in" and looks forward to more meetings with prominent businessmen Stephen Bronfman and Mitch Garber to discuss ways to support a possible return of Major League Baseball to Montreal. "What's good for Montreal? This is where we're in. We're always looking forward to having good projects for Montreal," Plante said after her first meeting with Garber and Bronfman. The two men lead a group of local investors looking to land an MLB team, either through expansion or the relocation of an existing club. Plante said the three first talked about their love for Montreal before discussing ideas for a variety of projects that could boost Montreal's profile — including the return of a pro baseball team to the city. Baseball fans in the city are still nostalgic, 14 years after the Montreal Expos were relocated to Washington, D.C., in 2004. "It's a big project and a big dream, and if it does happen one day, it will be good for the city and for us all," said Bronfman. " The baseball file is a slow-moving file," agreed Garber. "We're not asking the city for anything today other than to support the idea of Major League Baseball coming back and being good for the city of Montreal." Plante, who has faced criticism from Montreal sports fans for not being as staunch a supporter as her predecessor, Denis Coderre, said she's been wanting to be brought up to speed on the baseball file for a while, but her agenda was always too packed. Ahead of Friday's meeting, she tweeted a picture of herself wearing Expos gear. "That was excellent. It made a lot of people happy," said Bronfman, laughing. Plante said she is committed to supporting the cause "if it makes sense for Montreal." Plante has said in the past that the city would not build a new stadium without getting Montrealers to vote on the matter first in a referendum. She maintained her position after Friday's meeting. "If we need to build a new stadium and that would imply using Montrealers' money, we need to ask them first, because we've seen other places in the world, in North America, where it's been very expensive, and it was difficult on the citizens' pocket." Plante said there are many ways, other than financial, in which the city can offer its support, such as finding a plot of land on which to build an eventual stadium.Bronfman says for this dream to come true, it will take everyone's collaboration. "It's a big project. It requires support from the city, from the province, from people all around us, and it takes all the fans and citizens," he said. Quebec Premier Philippe Couillard said it's not among his priorities, and he would only get on board if Quebecers could stand to gain from the baseball industry. "If we are one day partners, and that's a big 'if' because we have many other things to do before taking on major sports, it will be to the benefit of all Quebecers — not just to the shareholders of private companies," Couillard said. One non-profit fans group fighting for the return of MLB to the city, ExposNation, says although no serious details were discussed Friday, it was a positive step. "This first meeting today is the first in a long line," said ExposNation chair Matthew Ross. "Montreal baseball fans need to be very, very patient here.... Really, it's all about Major League Baseball's time frame." "In the meantime, the local efforts here in Montreal have to continue to work behind the scenes to ready themselves in case the opportunity arises." www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/i-m-in-says-val-rie-plante-on-possible-return-of-major-league-baseball-to-montreal-1.4609350
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Post by mikecubs on Apr 9, 2018 4:32:21 GMT -6
In other articles I've seen they mentioned tax breaks. That's the only way this will work. They have to play hide the subsidy. There's no way they can actually privately finance it. The Montreal baseball report a few years ago said they needed 2/3rds funding for a $500M park. Cost for a new park are now $600M plus for no roof. There's no way they've gone from 2/3rds public help to 100% private. That's why Bronfman says they need "help" Besides the park other tough issues are 1. Is this a hoax? MLB has good reason to have as many stalking horses as possible. A new Tampa Stadium will cost $800M and the Tampa owner will only contribute between $150M to $400M. The $400m is ONLY if he can secure a New York style naming rights deal(LOL). 2. Finding an expansion partner. Would Mexico City work and would they build a park? Charlotte and San Antonio aren't that big though growing fast. 3. Getting Canadians to give up on 30 year olds since free agency don't work anymore with steroid testing. Once the nostalgia is gone would Canadian fans embrace tanking/trading older players like Josh Donaldson for prospects? Baseball has become a contest of who can take the best dive/tank the best to get young talent through trading veterans for prospects and getting high draft picks. jetshockeyforum.proboards.com/thread/7778/baseballs-world-series-winning-philosophyCan you sell tanking/moneyball to white Canadians? The Blue Jays admitted the right move this off season was to rebuild but they couldn't because fans wouldn't let them. Jays fans wanted high 70 wins/low 80s wins in the short term(instead of low 70's/high 60's wins) at the expense of building around future stars like Vlad Guerrero JR./Bo Bichette. When Guerrero/Bichette are ready Josh Donaldson will likely be in major decline. What happens if you can't rebuild but fans still want to win and there is bad blood because you aren't winning ala Toronto? How do you solve that? The Blue Jays are by far the oldest team in the league and fans are mad because they are insufficiently old enough and want more old free agents NOT rebuild. Of all the issues I think this is now the toughest one by far more so than stadium funding/finding an expansion partner/the Canadian dollar. 4. Who replaces the dying white Canadians long term as fans. Canadian white birth rate is 1.5 meaning from one generation to the next Canada will lose almost 30% of whites. Canada doesn't have barely any Hispanic population just people from basketball/soccer countries/no baseball countries other than the Philippines and limited Japanese. 5. What happens in 2021 when the MLB CBA expires? There is a labor war brewing since the current CBA is so owner favorable. The players are VERY mad. MLB teams shun old free agents. MLB players are only getting 37% of league revenue, the other 3 major sports it's around 50%. You have to put in 6-7 years(not counting time in the minors) to be a free agent. By the time you are a free agent you are 30+. There's talk of players asking for shorter time to be free agents. If that happens it will become favorable to big markets again like the 90's and be a demographic contest instead of a tanking contest. Are Montrealer's ok with that? 6. The Canadian dollar. Montreal is only the 20th biggest market when you double count big markets like NY,LA, Chicago, Bay Area. 22% of every local dollar is MISSING. There's not that much room for error. Warren Cromartie said they'd operate as a small market revenue wise/TV wise/attendance wise. That's fine but what if there is a revolt over tanking/not signing a sufficient number of 30 year+ olds?
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Post by wolfmannick on Apr 9, 2018 8:23:18 GMT -6
^ I don't know if the attendance drop would be as big as you think with the Jays. They won't sell out as many games for sure and I think that's their issue. Toronto apparently has the drunkest fans in baseball so they make a ton of money there lol. I used to goto games and almost the entire upper bowl would be empty, it can't get worse than that.
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