Post by Bruinsfan on Nov 27, 2015 7:41:30 GMT -6
How are Nashville/Tampa growing then? Nashville was profitable slightly according to Forbes, Tampa is getting very close with a 1B dollar development coming around their rink. You are correct LA, Bay Area and Dallas are super markets and for 100% sure Carolina, TB, Nashville will never be close to them. But Tampa/Nashville are starting to get to a decent point. Carolina if growth % holds won't ever be as big as LA, Dallas but it will be a decent size with no other competition. If we do what you want and remove every sun belt excluding the Kings/Stars/Sharks we'd be down to only 17 NHL teams in the US with the possibility of adding Seattle IF they ever get it together. You aren't getting a big TV deal with only 17-18 US teams with major markets missing and 3 teams in 1 market. NHL will be doomed as a nitch sport. Where are you going to go to get beyond 17-18 teams? I also have to ask if you are going to fold teams like Nashville/Tampa/Anaheim how is it fair to keep Buffalo/St. Louis going since they have similar metrics? Don't you have to fold/move them too out of fairness?
I don't think Karmanos would go as far as calling himself an idiot if he moved the team if he planned to do that. Sure he'd deny deny until the sale but that's awfully strong. Besides it's not up to Karmanos to move the team. I think he's smart enough to know better markets(Quebec) will be saved for teams that truly need it(Arizona) or expansion. It's up to the NHL. They aren't going to give up Quebec/Vegas expansion $$$ out of the goodness of their hearts just because Karmanos wants a goofy price for the team. If locals want it at a fair price they won't approve a move. NHL is already probably leaving one modern arena in Glendale for either another market or downtown. They aren't leaving another if that team isn't hemorrhaging money and the only problem is the owner is insane and thinks he's getting $400M(a New York Islanders price). If you let teams with modern arenas with leases move solely because another market is worth more even if the current market is viable that's the end of the arena subsidy business. Where would it stop? What if I owned the Winnipeg Jets who are doing great but I asked for a Toronto 2.0 price and couldn't get it in Winnipeg then moved the team to Toronto?
Here is the reason I mentioned rust belts and it has nothing to do with Kroenke/Rams
Forbes data since 06 on revenue
Carolina vs. St. Louis
06- $72M vs $66M
07- $68M vs $66M
08- $75M vs $73M
09- $82M vs $80M
10- $75M vs $79M
11- $81M vs $78M
12- $85M vs $89M
13- $71M vs $72M
14- $91M vs $98M
15- $99M vs $111M
Overall St Louis does win by $13M but still that's only an average of $1.3M per year over the last 10 years. The Blues a little more than 3 years ago sold for only $120M. Now in fairness that was old CBA/pre-Canadian TV deal. Still though the deal did include a share of the Peabody Opera house and an AHL team. Now if St. Louis was in the south and it didn't snow EVERYONE on here would be calling for a relocation due to the low sale price screaming about how bad the market sucked. Yet somehow I don't think you or anyone else on here will be calling for a relocation of the Blues. They get a pass.
For the record I don't want to move the Blues/Sabres either. I'm only in favor of getting rid of outright hopeless/money hemorrhaging situations(Glendale/Sunrise). Just trying to make the point of if you want go beyond folding teams that truly need it and want to take out other teams in the south then please be consistant and take out northern teams with similar metrics in places that aren't growing and don't have much upside either.
you throw these numbers out there on these sunbelts like they are racking in cash. They are barely turning a profit if not greasing their numbers for Gary's mad mind.
Think of it this way on St Louis and Buffalo. They have hockey fans, hockey following, they dont abandon the team just because they forgot they made a playoff run. These have long suffering fan bases. Not teams with horrible 90s names in the sunbelt.
Tampa and Carolina are mindless fans who show up because its a playoff series, (then switch shirts when the bruins and wings roll into town)
and nashville gets a ton of support from the city to be there.
My biggest issue with these sunbelt fans is they get hockey fans but not fans of their teams. Its just the nature of the market.
Im not saying move everyone, but to think that raleigh, nashville, and tampa are why you get a tv deal is mindless. The NHL is a niche sport its a northern american and canadian sport. Just the way it works, its where it is played. We have been getting players out of texas and other southern spots but that has to do with travel and AAU systems set up be snowbirds and not really a completely sustainable development system.