Bettman-Saddledome needs to be replaced

[mikecubs]

'This is a building that needs to be replaced' — Bettman on the antiquated Saddledome

The Detroit Red Wings are getting a new rink.

The Edmonton Oilers, too.

And, by next winter, the New York Islanders will be skating in a fresh building in Brooklyn.

All of which leaves the Calgary Flames in …

“A building that is 10 years older, in effect, than the oldest building we’ll be playing in over the next couple years,” Gary Bettman, commissioner of the National Hockey League, said Thursday evening, chatting with reporters in the offending structure — the Saddledome. “I think everyone knows the issue with respect to the (outdated) facility.

“This is a building that needs to be replaced. And, hopefully, it can be worked out in a way that not only provides a great facility for the city for family shows and concerts and cultural events as well as the team … it can be used to create something special in the city as it’s done in other places, like Columbus, like downtown Los Angeles.

“A new facility can be a catalyst for a whole host of things that positively impact the city. But, from my standpoint, things are in the preliminary stage.”

The Saddledome opened its doors in October 1983.

Worth noting, Bettman talked with Calgary mayor Naheed Nenshi on Wednesday.

“I had a nice chat … it was really more get acquainted because we hadn’t met each other before,” he said. “I think it’s always important that people who have important issues in common have good open lines of communication. If my efforts are not needed, so much the better. And if I can be helpful under the right circumstances, we’re always happy to do that.”

But Bettman doesn’t think the process should be delayed much longer.

“At some point it has to be dealt with,” he said, “because it affects the team, it affects the community. There’s going to be a new building up the road (in Edmonton). If you’re booking a tour of whatever, and you have a certain limited number of dates, you’re probably going to opt for the state-of-the-art facility.”

During an informal 10-minute sit-down with local media members, Bettman was also asked about the nosediving Canadian dollar.

The loonie has fallen below 80 cents US for the first time in six years.

Alarming?

“It doesn’t set off alarms — and I know it’s popular to report that it does,” said Bettman. “The (collective bargaining agreement) takes into account fluctuations in the Canadian dollar. The Canadian dollar is computed on a daily basis for us, so you average it over the 365 days of the year.”

The Flames, with the second-lowest payroll in the league, have a salary-cap hit of $58.42 million US, according to nhlnumbers.com.

Converting that to American bucks — at the most recent exchange rate — and suddenly the Flames are shelling out 73.72 million Cdn.

“I do the math every day,” said Brad Treliving, general manager of the Flames. “People don’t really think of that. If you do the math, it’s significant — and that’s with a very responsible (cap) number right now. As your payroll grows, obviously, that impact is greater.

“We’ve got an eye on it and, obviously, on the impact that it has. You’re looking at your planning for next year. Where we are from a cap standpoint, we’re in a good position.”

The salary cap, currently at $69 million US, had been projected to increase for next season.

Now?

Bettman maintains that a boost of some sort is still likely.

“When I gave a rough-estimate projection to the board (of governors) in December,” he said, “the Canadian dollar, I believe, was at 88 cents. I said to the board … that if the dollar stays at 88 cents for the rest of the season, it’ll be a $73 million (US) cap. I told the board last Saturday, if it drops to 82 cents and it stays there for the rest of the season, then the cap would be 72.2 or 72.3. And if it drops to 80 cents — we’re not far off that now — (the cap) would be 71.7, 71.8.

“Being a million dollars off, one way or the other, on a cap that in excess of $70 million doesn’t set off alarm bells. The system has a self-correcting element.

“We have a system where all teams can afford to be competitive.”

calgaryherald.com/sports/hockey/this-is-a-building-that-needs-to-be-replaced-bettman-on-the-antiquated-saddledome

[wolfmannick]

Not a big secret, Bettman is just pushing the project along.

[Bruinsfan]

This my friends is why the coyotes were given every chance to stay possible...so Bettman can say "look at glendale and their commitment to the league..you OWE US"

[Lions67]

Jan 31, 2015 22:30:10 GMT -6 Bruinsfan said:

This my friends is why the coyotes were given every chance to stay possible...so Bettman can say "look at glendale and their commitment to the league..you OWE US"

""

nope.


you are wrong.

try again.
this time, do NOT listen to Mike.
INSTEAD, do a full research on EVERYTHING "CANADIAN TEAMS" PRIOR to 1994. pay special attention to Ottawa.

[wolfmannick]

^ Bettman will do whatever he can to get new buildings in Canadian cities when they are needed. That's where the big money is. This has niothing to do with the Coyotes. That was all about Balsille trying to throw money around and order his way into the League. The NHL also couldn't just walk away from a brand new building when the city was willing to give what they have in order to keep the team. What kind of precedent would that set? If Glendale ever, and I mean ever decides they have paid enough and refuses to give any more money the team is gone the next season. Its all buisness. As long as the city will pay the team's losses they will stay. Same goes for the Panthers. If the city says they stay, NHL dosen't have a choice.

[Deleted]

Yes the Saddledome is 31 years old as we speak, and by todays standards is outdated, but consider this, the MTS Centre a building that was under built by NHL standards is already 11 years old come this November........

The question is this,

When do we start thinking long term in Winnipeg? Another 5 to 10 years?

[mikecubs]

It's not just the age that is the problem with the Saddledome. The main problem is it was built pre-90's before the luxury box/club seat/fancy food places/team store era. Because of that the Saddledome has FATAL flaws that the MTS Centre(or any other NHL arena) doesn't have. Main ones being

1. There's too many seats in the upper deck, not enough in the lower. Milwaukee's Bradley Center in the NBA has this problem. The Saddledome has 3rd fewest club seats in the NHL with only 1461. MTS Centre has 2064 good for 18th.

2. The roof is killing good concerts. Concerts hang their stuff from the ceilings on arenas. Saddledome can't handle the weight. Thus they get bypassed a lot for concerts. MTS Centre doesn't have this problem.

3. The luxury boxes that they tacked on aren't modern at all.

4. The concourses lack the big fancy team stores/space/eating places.

As far as when MTS Centre will be replaced it will be a lot longer than 5-10 years. MTS isn't the greatest of the new arenas, it was built to the bear minimum acceptable standards since there was no guarantee the NHL would come back. MTS could use more seats and more concourse space in a perfect world but there's no god awful flaws either like the Saddledome. In general the modern arenas/stadiums will last a lot longer than the 30 years the last generation did. What teams will do with the current generation is renovations. Adding more stores, converting unused luxury boxes into party areas/theater boxes. Keep in mind in Chicago/Boston for example they are building big developments around the arenas despite them being built in 1994/95 respectively. So far since the modern arena boom has started nothing has really changed that can't be renovated into a modern arena. Anaheim has also recently renovated. Minnesota in the NBA which had their arena built in 1990 is renovating and signed a lease extension through 2032 which would make the building 42 years old bear minimum when they leave it. What killed the old generation was no luxury boxes, small concourses, no room for the team stores/food places. Not actual age but design flaws. The one exception to this will be stadiums/parks/arenas located in bad spots(either too suburban or in the slums). For example the Atlanta Braves are leaving Turner Field because it's in the slums, Ottawa wants a new arena downtown, the Washington Redskins want a new stadium downtown.

For MTS Centre is I had to guess I'd say in the 2030's it will be replaced. Winnipeg at that point will be over a million people and what will do MTS in will be the capacity. The team will figure we now have 1M people, they are crazy for hockey, we can easily fill another 2000 seats and not hurt the supply/demand.

[mikecubs]

Flames to debut arena plans soon, won't 'steal money' from city: King

By month’s end, Calgarians should know where the Calgary Flames want to build their next arena and how they hope to pay for it — a proposal CEO Ken King has been devising since at least 2007.

Mayor Naheed Nenshi’s office has confirmed King will give him a sneak preview within the next two weeks, before he finally unveils to the public the team’s vision for a new downtown complex to replace the Saddledome.

Depending on what sort of government financial assistance Flames owners are seeking, this announcement stands to thrust Calgary into years of public debate, if Edmonton’s arena saga is any guide.

“I think people will love what they see and they’ll like the funding mechanism, so they’ll like the whole package, I really believe that,” King told KISS 95.9 radio station Thursday. He also said he’ll release plans in a “couple of weeks.”

The team owners’ frontman declined an interview to clarify what sort of shape his funding plan will take. He did, however, rule out one potential method.

“Before any of your listeners have conniptions, when you see our project, people are just going to love it. And we’re not going to sneak in here and steal money from the city,” King told the radio hosts.

City councillors have pre-emptively narrowed his options further.

The 15 members are almost uniformly opposed to redirecting scarce infrastructure dollars at a professional sports facility, though other options may be on the table.

“The best option perhaps is just going to be making land available, but no dollars. Because there are no dollars,” said Coun. Ward Sutherland, vice-chair of council’s priorities and finance committee.

Even free land is a tough sell for several council members. Nenshi is wary of a land giveaway, especially in high-value areas like West Village, the city-owned lands around the Greyhound station where it’s widely perceived the Flames want to develop.

“I’ve always said that I’m open to having a conversation on anything, but wherever there is public contribution there has to be very significant public benefit,” Nenshi said in a brief interview Thursday. “I’m not interested in public money subsidizing solely private profit.”

He refused to elaborate on what he deems public benefit. King has said he’ll pitch an “extremely ambitious” project and has hinted it will offer more than an arena, to give it wider appeal. The rumour mill has brimmed with ideas such as an amateur sports field house and a new Stampeders football stadium.

According to documents the Herald reported on in November, King and the mayor’s office have previously discussed locating the complex in West Village, the expanse of car dealerships and the Greyhound station west of downtown. It’s earmarked for eventual redevelopment on par with East Village, though the land is easily big enough to fit a hockey barn, within walking distance of the Sunalta LRT.

The Flames have been seriously planning a replacement for the Saddledome since at least 2007, and in earlier days looked at staying within Stampede Park. Back then, King had predicted his team would be skating in a new home by 2014.

But as Oilers owner Daryl Katz navigated through a years-long civic funding struggle and began construction on Rogers Place in the meantime, the Flames organization has been mired in site selection wrangling and study.

The Saddledome, completed in 1983, will be the oldest arena in the National Hockey League once new venues are completed in Detroit and Edmonton, and the New York Islanders move to new digs in Brooklyn. Flames brass bemoan that its lower bowl is too small, and it lacks the luxury box space that newer venues boast.

The saddle-shaped roof has also become a huge headache for large concert organizers. Touring acts like Maroon 5, Paul McCartney and Taylor Swift have booked Edmonton’s Rexall Place and skipped Calgary. In fact, that’s the issue that prompted King to take to the airwaves Thursday, on a pop music station that’s running a ticket giveaway Friday for tickets to see Madonna in Edmonton.

On funding, King cannot count on the provincial or federal governments for assistance if Calgary stymies him, as they didn’t contribute to the arena in Edmonton.

City councillors there agreed to cough up nearly three-quarters of the costs for the Oilers’ $480-million downtown complex, though not through direct grants. Most of it will come from a city-levied ticket tax, parking revenue and a community revitalization levy which is paid for through property taxes on future downtown Edmonton developments and reassessed buildings.

The Flames haven’t found as willing a partner in the mayor’s office as Oilers owner Daryl Katz had with Stephen Mandel, the capital’s former mayor. In 2011, Nenshi rejected King’s request to strike an independent committee to study the need of a new arena.

“The mayor said, ‘Well, show me a presentation,’ and as he is aware we’ve had a lot of conversations with him,” King said Thursday. “I think in fairness to him, he’s the first person that should see the fully fleshed plan.”

Nenshi’s office, which boasts about publishing his meeting list every few months, would not disclose the schedule date for his sit-down with Flames officials.

calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/flames-poised-to-reveal-plans-for-downtown-arena

[lenny]

Its OK with Bettman though to have a nice facility and have it half empty like the Panthers play in. I'd rather Bettman spend his time relocating teams like Arizona and Florida to possible locations like Quebec then sticking his beak in Calgary.

[mikecubs]

Bettman is probably the worst commissioner in sports history but he is absolutely 1000% right here(a broken clock is right twice a day). Just because Arizona and Florida suck doesn't mean the Flames should be allowed to be the only team in either the NHL or NBA playing in a pre-90's arena(Assuming Golden State and Milwaukee break ground on new arenas this year). Besides Arizona and Florida have other things going for them that make up for the empty arenas. Arizona has a dumb city council who will ALWAYS give another subsidy and Florida can survive off concerts.

[mikecubs]

Flames' arena pitch includes new football stadium, amateur sports facility

The Calgary Flames’ vision for its new arena project is a blockbuster that would take up several blocks’ worth of prime land west of downtown — bringing together a new hockey arena plus a football stadium and an amateur sports fieldhouse, the Herald has learned.

It’s a megaproject that could easily cost more than half a billion dollars, and features a component more likely to draw in civic funding support than if it were merely new stand-alone homes for the Flames and Stampeders.

By bundling in a fieldhouse designed for track meets, indoor soccer and other amateur sports, Flames CEO Ken King is proposing to build something on the top of the city’s own project wish list, and potentially gives the proposal the sort of public benefit that Mayor Naheed Nenshi has said is essential if city hall is to become a project partner.

The indoor multi-sport complex could make the Flames project more “palatable” to the city, said Jason Zaran, incoming chairman of the Calgary Multisport Fieldhouse Society.

“A multi-sport facility is needed in this town, and I think if they can be the ones to bring it to the table and get it done, it looks good on them as well,” Zaran said.

His group has been working with the city’s recreation department on a $202-million, publicly-funded development at Foothills Athletic Park, just north of McMahon Stadium. In February, city staff ranked it at the top of the city’s unfunded infrastructure projects.

King has offered the fieldhouse society a tantalizing Plan B — constructing the facility as part of the stadium for the Canadian Football League team, which the Flames own. According to one source familiar with the plans, the football complex and fieldhouse would be part of the same convertible building.

King shared his plans with Nenshi in mid-March, then the mayor relayed it to council in a closed-door session Monday evening, multiple sources have confirmed. But there’s still no formal proposal submitted to council, and it’s unclear when King will finally reveal the ambitious concept to the public, though he did say a month ago the release was a “couple of weeks” away.

This three-in-one idea spawns numerous questions pertaining to Stampede Park’s Scotiabank Saddledome, the University of Calgary’s McMahon lands, and, of course, the City of Calgary, whose West Village lands the Flames are said to covet.

Combining an arena with a stadium/fieldhouse takes up a much larger swath of the property around the Greyhound Station.

The city has been acquiring those lands for several years, and recently purchased the four-hectare GSL car dealership site for $36.9 million. But it’s never been for sports facilities. The land would become part of the West Village blueprint for a future community of condo highrises and office buildings, akin to what’s under development in East Village.

Several councillors have said they’d be open to giving the Flames free land for a new arena, though the Herald could not confirm whether that’s what Ken King is asking for. Nenshi and council unanimously oppose direct taxpayer subsidies for professional sports buildings, and King tried to head off talk of a massive funding request in a radio station interview last month.

“Before any of your listeners have conniptions, when you see our project, people are just going to love it. And we’re not going to sneak in here and steal money from the city,” he told KISS 95.9.

In a voicemail Wednesday, King said he’s not yet prepared to discuss the proposal, which he’s been working on since at least 2007.

“I’m still in the quiet zone,” he said.

The Flames organization now owns the Stampeders, Flames, Calgary Hitmen (minor-league hockey) and Calgary Roughnecks (lacrosse) — but they’re playing in some of their respective leagues’ oldest facilities, the 1960 McMahon Stadium and the 1983 Saddledome.

In Edmonton, the Oilers’ $480-million new arena will be complete by fall 2016. That city’s tax-backed loan, ticket tax and parking revenue will cover much of its cost.

Nenshi has been skeptical about the need for a new arena or for any city cost-sharing. In 2011, the mayor’s office refused to help set up an independent committee to study the project.

The mayor’s tone appears to have shifted slightly last month, after his meeting with King. When asked about the arena at a Rotary Club speech, Nenshi reiterated that it must have some public benefit if it’s to garner public funding, and he praised the Flames’ six owners as “deeply committed” to Calgary and thoughtful about their process.

“Whatever solution we end up with is a solution we’ll get with great respect for one another and figuring out together what’s best for the community,” Nenshi said.

calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/triple-play-flames-megaproject-pitch-includes-arena-stadium-amateur-sports-house