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Post by mikecubs on Aug 13, 2015 21:09:13 GMT -6
^^^ I know you are right unfortunately. It's a shame. There is absolute no other circumstance like this in anywhere else like this in either the rest of MLB, NFL, NBA or NHL. 100% of the time if a team has a bad facility that is holding the team back ownership will ask for a replacement. If you put a retro park in Toronto I would bet my life vs. a penny in return that the Jays would be an elite franchise financially/attendance wise. What I predict will happen with the Jays is this. They will win the world series this year. Then they will let Price, Buehrle and Estrada go due to $$$. Plus if a team with a real park like the Cubs/Dodgers come calling for Price and by some miracle the Jays did match the offer it's not like he's going to pick playing in the depressing dome. The Jays won't make the playoffs next year and they will be back to mid-20,000 crowds and mediocrity. Other problem with the Jays long term is the lineup is getting older. Bautista will be 35 and a free agent after next year, Encarnacion will be 33 next year, Tulowitzski will be 31 and has an injury history(plus that turf won't be good for him). Russell Martin will be 33. As good as this team is they are NOT built to last long term due to free agency, age, the awful ownership/park.
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Post by TheDeuce on Aug 14, 2015 8:51:31 GMT -6
I don't know if Dome replacement is such a pipe dream - or rather that is should necessarily be a pipe dream. The land it's on is worth a fortune. If it got flipped into a real estate deal the $$$ generated would be a heck of a down payment on a new current park.
m.
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Post by wolfmannick on Aug 14, 2015 16:31:12 GMT -6
I just hope Rogers has figured out that if they make the team a contender that they sell out games and keep going in that direction. I don't want them to win and do what the Marlins do and trade everyone away right after or if they lose this year say "well we gave it a shot", and trade everyone away after this year.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 14, 2015 21:04:59 GMT -6
^^^ I don't think there will be trades/a firesale. What will happen is Price for sure and probably Buehrle and Estrada won't be resigned. I think the attitude with rogers will be we won, we don't have to win for another 20 years.
You can't blame the Marlins for any of their firesales. When they broke up the 2 title teams they were playing in a suburban football stadium where the little revenue they did get went to the Dolphins. There was no way in hell under those circumstances they could have kept the 98 and 03 title team together. When they broke up the 12 Marlins, well that team sucked. Other than Buehrle no one they left go has done much. Josh Johnson is out of the league, Heath Bell is out of the league, Jose Reyes sucks and has an awful contract, Hanley Ramirez can hit but doesn't have a position on defense.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 14, 2015 21:15:33 GMT -6
I don't know if Dome replacement is such a pipe dream - or rather that is should necessarily be a pipe dream. The land it's on is worth a fortune. If it got flipped into a real estate deal the $$$ generated would be a heck of a down payment on a new current park. m. This is a very good post. I think there's enough money/fans in Toronto that they could finance a new park especially when you consider the land. The reason why it's a pipe dream is the Jays organization is still stuck in the 1980s. Paul Beeston plays a big part of that. In one interview I've seen with him he mentioned it was still the 1980s then corrected himself. The guy totally worships EVERYTHING about the 80s. He said he hoped Toronto always had the dome and it lasted forever The only hope I can see is that Beeston is leaving after this year and their will be a new club president. I'm hoping the new president says to Rogers hey we play in the 4th biggest market, we have a great fan base, if we had a real park we could crush people yearly instead of it being a one time thing and he convinces Rogers to junk the dome.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2015 13:33:35 GMT -6
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Post by mikecubs on Sept 16, 2015 0:08:56 GMT -6
Blue Jays built to win now, but farm system depleted: Griffin
Cleaning out farm system risky business with small window of opportunity.The Blue Jays are holding onto first place in the East with the second-highest win percentage in the AL, after the Royals. The magic number to at least clinch one of two wild cards is 17 over the Twins and 15 against the Angels. But the truth is, nobody in this race wants the wild card. Win the division and you’re at least playing a best-of-five division series. Wild card, you may be one and done. For those paying attention, the Jays and Yankees are two of the three best teams in the AL and will open a key four-game series in the Bronx on Thursday. The season series has been sublime, with neither offence able to dominate. The teams rank 1-2 in runs scored in the majors, yet over 12 meetings — during which the Jays are 8-4 — they have managed to outscore the Bombers just 43-26, meaning fewer than six runs combined per contest. In fact, neither the Jays nor the Yankees has been able to score more than six runs in those games. Whenever these teams meet, even though it’s all regular season, they play with the intensity of the post-season — efficient starters handing it off to really good bullpens, backed by solid defence. Yes, the Royals remain first overall in the AL — even with their prized acquisition, starter Johnny Cueto, struggling. The first-place team would meet the winner of the wild-card game, likely to be hosted by the Jays or Yankees vs. the Astros or Rangers. The Royals would rather not face either AL East contender and their solid imitations of the Royals’ bullpen. The Jays are hot, winning 29 of their last 37. How did GM Alex Anthopoulos go about building this team that, before rosters expanded, featured six players acquired in trades since Aug. 28? HOMEGROWN (10): Infielder Ryan Goins; outfielders Kevin Pillar and Dalton Pompey; pitchers Drew Hutchison, Marcus Stroman (DL, back Saturday), Aaron Sanchez, Roberto Osuna, Brett Cecil, Aaron Loup and Ryan Tepera. FREE AGENTS/WAIVERS (10): Catchers Russell Martin and Dioner Navarro; infielders Justin Smoak, Chris Colabello, Matt Hague, Munenori Kawasaki and Maicer Izturis (DL); outfielder Ezequiel Carrera; pitchers Bo Schultz and Jeff Francis. The key to assessing the GM’s work is comparing the 17 current roster players acquired via trade to the 17 major leaguers Anthopoulos surrendered plus the 13 prospects dealt — diminishing the farm system. Anthopoulos has put this club in a good playoff position for 2015. But how long is this window of opportunity going to stay open if Rogers ownership can’t or won’t sign David Price, and if they also lose their other free-agent eligibles: starters Mark Buehrle and Marco Estrada, plus backup catcher Navarro and reliever LaTroy Hawkins?
ACQUIRED IN TRADE (17): Catcher Josh Thole; infielders Josh Donaldson, Edwin Encarnacion, Troy Tulowitzki, Devon Travis (DL) and Cliff Pennington; outfielders Jose Bautista, Ben Revere and Michael Saunders (DL); pitchers Price, R.A. Dickey, Estrada, Buehrle, Hawkins, Mark Lowe, Liam Hendriks and Steve Delabar. TRADED, NOW IN MLB (17): Catchers Travis D’Arnaud and Jeff Mathis; infielders Jose Reyes, Brett Lawrie, Adeiny Hechavarria, Yunel Escobar and Adam Lind; outfielders Anthony Gose and Jake Marisnick; pitchers Noah Syndergaard, Henderson Alvarez, J.A. Happ, Daniel Norris (DL), Justin Nicolino, Kendall Graveman, Anthony DeSclafani and Matt Boyd. PROSPECTS TRADED (13): Catcher Santiago Nessy; infielder Franklin Barreto, outfielder Wuilmer Becerra, pitchers Jeff Hoffman, Miguel Castro, Sean Nolin, Jesus Tinoco, Alberto Tirado, Jairo Labourt, Rob Rasmussen, Jacon Brentz, Nick Wells and Jimmy Cordero. The Jays’ farm system was sorely depleted for the final month of 2015 and will have to be restocked, or have young talent blossom in a hurry. If the Jays go deep into the playoffs, it will be worth it. If they stumble early and some of the prospects given up reach the majors as impact players, Anthopoulos will be second-guessed for years. Sometimes you simply roll the dice. www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/2015/09/09/blue-jays-built-to-win-now-but-farm-system-depleted-griffin.html
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Post by mikecubs on Sept 16, 2015 0:42:16 GMT -6
Looking at the Jays I think they are kind where the 2008 Chicago Cubs were. The Cubs had the best record in the league but they were old. They choked in the playoffs getting sweept by the 84 win dodgers. Next season they finished second to St. Louis and missed the playoffs. Then the bottom fell out and it took 5 years to rebuild. The Phillies are another team starting a massive rebuild. They won it all in 2008 and lost in 2009 to the Yankees in the World Series. They kept their core too long and drafted poorly. Their general manager was just fired for that.
Looking at the Jays I think they will win it all this year or at least make the world series. Kansas City is reeling and Johnny Cueto is hurt. Greg Holland is now ordinary. The Astros are too young and a big strike out team like that will have massive trouble in the playoffs. The Yankees are old, missing Texiera and aren't that good. Tanaka's(sp) arm will give out one of these days. I think Texas is the Jays biggest threat in the AL. I could see any of the NL teams(Stl, Pit, NYM or Chi) beating the Jays but I would still favor the jays.
Long term is where it gets bad. Look at the age of this team.
Rotation
1. David Price(30/31) I think he will last a long time but he's a free agent. It will require the LARGEST pitcher contract in MLB history to keep him. 2. Mark Buehrle(37) He will miss 200 innings for the first time in 14 years. He may retire or even return to the White Sox. 3. R.A. Dickey(41) Nice season, has a team option that will be picked up. Yes he's a knuckleballer but he's old 4. Marco Estrada(33) Free agent. Getting older. 5. Marcus Stroman(24/25) It will be nice having him back. He will make up for one of the free agent losses 6. Drew Hutchinson(25/26) He's young but he has an era over 5.
Overall the rotation could turn into a major weakness.
Bullpen I won't list everyone but it's relatively young. Osuna/Sanchez will be around a while. LaTroy Hawkins is retiring and Mark Lowe is a free agent. They should be fine.
Lineup-I'll only list the main guns.
Jose Bautista(35) He will be a free agent after next season. He's getting up there.
Edwin Encarnacion(33) He will be a free agent after next season.
Russ Martin(33) He's getting up there for a catcher. He has 4 years left on his contract after this year. Last part of it may not be pretty.
Troy Tulowitski(31) He's on old 31. The Rockies just wanted to dump his contract because he hasn't stayed healthy and is now entering his 30's. Has a long way to go on his contract. 4 of his 9 seasons he's missed major time. He's already hurt. Long term he's going to be a disaster for the Jays. The idea was they'd win the world series in the short term with him.
Josh Donaldson(30) He's a young 30. Should have many more good years but I do think this is a career year.
Even if Rogers was a good owner and had a real park I don't think there is a way to avoid what Chicago went through and what Philly is going through now. With Philly and Chicago at least they had real parks to enjoy during the awful years. The Jays in a few years will be an awful team playing in an even worse park. The Jays better win it all to give the fans a nice memory because what is coming down the pike is going to be horrifying.
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Post by wolfmannick on Sept 26, 2015 13:35:20 GMT -6
^ Can't be any worse than their last 20-something seasons. By the way the Blue Jays clinched a playoff birth last night
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Post by mikecubs on Sept 26, 2015 14:42:07 GMT -6
Jays never really bottomed out the last 20 years. They were just stuck in mediocrity and never came close to the playoffs all that often.
In 1995 they went 56-88. In 2004 they went 67-94. In every other season they won at least 73 games.
2-3 years from now they will very likely bottom out ala Cubs/Astros/Phillies. Only way it can be avoided is if they lose Price this offseason they decided it isn't worth keeping the aging lineup together and trade Bautista, Encarnacion, Donaldson to do a quick(er) rebuild. I don't see that happening. They will probably sign a so-so vet to replace Price like a Mike Leake etc...They will probably want to still be competitive even if they don't make the playoffs because if they are they will probably still draw a good crowd due to the afterglow of this season and make more money in the short term. If they do take this approach they will bottom out in a couple years.
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Post by mikecubs on Sept 26, 2015 14:44:06 GMT -6
Blue Jays' ability to re-sign David Price no laughing matterAlex Anthopoulos has reached the point where, when he’s asked about whether the Blue Jays can sign David Price going forward, he just laughs. The Jays’ GM finds it somewhat amusing that, in the midst of a pennant race, with the city of Toronto, and much of Canada, going crazy for the Jays, everyone seems fixated on whether the team can sign Price to a long-term deal when the season is over. “We normally talk about this stuff when we’re out of it and you’re starting to talk about next year,” said Anthopoulos on Thursday. “There’s no reason in my mind to talk about next year when we’re experiencing something that’s exciting and that hasn’t been experienced in over 20 years across Canada. “That’s not to avoid the question,” he added. “There will be a time and place for free agents, for extensions, for all that kind of stuff. But right now, the focus should be on, let’s try to win the AL East and let’s certainly try to get to the playoffs and hopefully take a shot at winning the World Series. The other stuff will take care of itself.” OK, but will the other stuff take care of itself? We’re talking about Rogers. Anthopoulos has proven his worth over the years, particularly this season. The 2015 pennant race aside, Rogers hasn’t. One pennant race in 22 years doesn’t cut it.The bottom line is this: If the price is right, David Price could be back in Toronto. He seems to be enjoying his time and his teammates here. But if the Blue Jays fail to re-sign their ace starter after this season, it won’t be the fault of AA. That blame will rest squarely on the shoulders of team ownership and whether or not the billion-dollar broadcast conglomerate is willing to cough up enough to counter the anticipated mega-offers for Price from places like New York, Boston, Chicago or Los Angeles.It’s that simple. Either they’ll be willing to pay the big money long-term, or they’re won’t be. Anthopoulos’ hands are tied, as usual. At this point all he can say is, yes, he’d love to have David Price back and he’ll do everything he can to get the ace lefty to return. But the bottom line is cold, hard cash (and term) and whether Rogers is willing shell out. More times than not in the past, they’re haven’t been. This time around, there are no excuses why they can’t be in the game for Price’s services. Perhaps the only hope is that someone at Rogers actually clues in and sees what’s going on in Toronto right now and understands how great of a baseball town this place really is. Now that the Jays are finally in a pennant race, the crowds, the excitement, the TV numbers, everything, is as good as anywhere in Major League Baseball. If this isn’t an eye-opener for the normally miserly Jays ownership, we don’t know what is. If Rogers doesn’t act accordingly in the off-season and give Anthopoulos a REAL chance to sign Price, then shame on them.Anthopoulos refuses to comment about future negotiations or the odds of signing Price. He can’t even promise whether the Jays will be in “the fight” to sign Price in the off-season. All he can say — and this is rather clever — is to stop fixating on David Price going forward and enjoy the ride right now. “Being a fan, you can think and talk and do whatever you want and worry about whatever you want,” he said. “We have time to worry about 2016. We really do. But we don’t get these opportunities (pennant race) too often. So just try to enjoy 2015 rather than worry about ... Look, David Price is here, he’s throwing for us again on Saturday. He’s going to make another start after that. He’s part of the 2015 team. We’re trying to make the playoffs, if we make the playoffs, we expect him to pitch in the playoffs. But 2016, who knows? “It will addressed, we’ll deal with it. We’ve got a club to put together. We want to win going forward, we want to make it a sustainable club. But now is not really the team to engage in contract discussions. We love David Price, we’d love to have David Price on this team going forward. Beyond that, I probably wouldn’t want to comment on any more than that.” Most baseball insiders don’t believe the Jays have a real chance of signing Price to a long-term deal, given Rogers’ reluctance to play with the big boys in the past, as well as its five-year limitation on contracts. But imagine this: If the Jays aren’t in the mix when it comes to trying to sign Price in the off-season, if they’re blown out of the water by the Yankees or Red Sox or Dodgers, how is that going to play in the clubhouse? How are guys like Josh Donaldson, Jose Bautista, Russell Martin and Troy Tulowitzki going to feel? “Sorry fellas. 2015 was a one-off. It’s back to the usual mediocrity.”Since the last time the Blue Jays won the World Series in 1993, Yankees and Red Sox fans have more often than not felt the excitement of a pennant race on an annual basis. There’s no reason why that can’t happen in Toronto. It all comes down to whether Rogers falls back to its old tricks on spending, or acknowledges that Toronto is a great baseball town and the fans deserve this excitement every year, and act accordingly.There isn’t room for excuses anymore. Either they’re serious about getting David Price back and are willing to open the vault, or they’re not. And if they’re not, then this season probably IS a one-off.The 2015 AL pennant race as clearly shown that, if you build a winner in Toronto, the fans will come. And they’ll come in numbers and with great passion. www.torontosun.com/2015/09/24/blue-jays-ability-to-re-sign-david-price-no-laughing-matter
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2015 11:49:29 GMT -6
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