Distances and pics of arenas/MLB ballparks from downtown

[mikecubs]

Try this again. I'll make a separate thread as a reference and to not clog up the Seattle thread. It will take me a while to complete them all.

Using distance to from.net www.distancefromto.net/

here is a look at how far the facilities of the 3 major sports that play more than once a week are located from what this site says is the 100% centerpoint of downtown. These may be off a few miles one way or the other because I'm not sure if this site uses the downtown exactly or the city center. For example on the site it says it's 17.4 from downtown Phoenix to Gila River arena, wiki says it's 12.5. Take these with a bit of a grain of salt this is not perfect by any means. Most of these arenas/MLB ballparks are located right in the heart of downtown. Look at the pics more than what I have listed as the miles from the 100% center point of downtown. You will see a common theme in all the pics. I apologize because some of these pics aren't the best and are very small but you will still get the idea.

NHL

Team-Arena-miles from absolute center point of downtown

St. Louis Blues Scottrade Center(1994) 0.23



^In this pic the arena is in the lower left hand corner.



Nashville Predators Bridgestone Arena(1996)* 0.39



Edmonton Oilers Rogers Place(2016) 0.4



San Jose Sharks SAP Center at San Jose(1993) 0.67



Pittsburgh Penguins Consol Energy Center(2010) 0.7



Toronto Maple Leafs Air Canada Centre(1999) 0.71



Boston Bruins TD Garden(1995) 0.77





Montreal Canadiens Bell Centre(1996)* 0.8





^Look in the lower left hand corner and work your way up and find it!

Tampa Bay Lightning Amalie Arena(1996) 0.87



Columbus Blue Jackets Nationwide Arena(2000) 0.93





Buffalo Sabres First Niagara Center(1996) 1





Winnipeg Jets MTS Centre(2004)* 1.01





Detroit Red Wings New Detroit Arena(2017) 1.03



Vancouver Canucks Rogers Arena(1995) 1.17



^ It's next to BC Place


Dallas Stars American Airlines Center(2001) 1.21






Washington Capitals Verizon Center(1997)* 1.32



^^I can't find anything better. The arena is downtown in the China district.

Calgary Flames Scotiabank Saddledome(1983) 1.51



Los Angeles Kings Staples Center(1999) 1.88





Colorado Avalanche Pepsi Center(1999) 2.08




Minnesota Wild Xcel Energy Center(2000) 2.75 from downtown st. paul, 9.26 to minneapolis



Chicago Blackhawks United Center(1994) 3.07



New York Rangers Madison Square Garden(1968) 3.08





New York Islanders Barclays Center(2012) 3.25



Anaheim Ducks Honda Center(1993) 4.74 (from Anaheim not LA)





View the other way opposite of Angeles stadium.

Philadelphia Flyers Wells Fargo Center(1996) 6.14



Carolina Hurricanes PNC Arena(1999) 6.53



The arena is the white building in the lower center of the picture

New Jersey Devils Prudential Center(2007) 10.24 (there are great public transport options for this so the distance is misleading)



Ottawa Senators Canadian Tire Centre(1996)* 15.81 (want new arena downtown)





Arizona Coyotes Gila River Arena(2003)* 17.4(If i'm wrong and they lose the lawsuit or the city doesn't cave they are finished)







Florida Panthers BB&T Center(1998) 36.17 (want a bailout, if they ever separate the concerts from hockey good bye panthers)






Extras

Las Vegas Black Knights Las Vegas Arena(2016)







The arena is on the Las Vegas strip.

Quebec Nordiques Videotron Centre(2015)



New Calgary Arena



SODO(Downtown Seattle)





^The view from Safeco

Tukwila 11.94



Nassau Coliseum 30.99





I put this one because after the renovation the Islanders will play 4 regular season games here yet and there is the chance they could be kicked out of the Barclays Center after 5 years. Keep in mind Nassau was Wangs/Bettmans first choice NOT Barclays.

[Bruinsfan]

granted you could put a stadium anywhere in boston and it would be close to downtown...because boston is a tiny city

[Deleted]

Jul 19, 2015 17:03:59 GMT -6 Bruinsfan said:

granted you could put a stadium anywhere in boston and it would be close to downtown...because boston is a tiny city

Don't the Patriots play in Foxboro. How far is that from downtown?

[mikecubs]

^^^Yes they play in Foxborough. According to the web site I used(BIG GRAIN OF SALT) it ways 27.25 miles from the Patriots stadium to the 100% city core of Boston. With NFL you can get away with the burbs/distant places because you only play once a week for 8 weeks. I don't think there is such a thing as too crappy of a location unless it's at the LA Coliseum due to the surrounding gang members.

[mikecubs]

NBA

Phoenix Suns Talking Stick Resort Arena(1992) 0.24



Oklahoma City Thunder Chesapeake Energy Arena(2002) 0.33


Indiana Pacers Bankers Life Fieldhouse(1999) 0.36





^^ The arena is more towards the left and at the bottom. The brick building at the far left and center is the Football stadium Lucas Oil Field

Sacramento Kings Golden 1 Center(2016) 0.49



Charlotte Hornets Time Warner Cable Arena(2005) 0.6



Cleveland Cavaliers Quicken Loans Arena(1994) 0.62



The arena is down the left field line of the baseball stadium.

Orlando Magic Amway Center(2010) 0.67





Toronto Raptors Air Canada Centre(1999)* 0.71



Boston Celtics TD Garden(1995) 0.77





Memphis Grizzlies FedExForum(2004) 0.92



Milwaukee Bucks BMO Harris Bradley Center(1988) 1.06 (new arena will be in the same area)





Dallas Mavericks American Airlines Center(2001) 1.21






Portland Trail Blazers Moda Center(1995) 1.23





^^^The green things are the convention center

Houston Rockets Toyota Center(2003) 1.25




Utah Jazz EnergySolutions Arena(1991) 1.26









It's the sideways square with a white roof in front of the few skyscrapers Salk Lake City has.

Atlanta Hawks Philips Arena(1999) 1.28



^^It's the building to the right of the white Georgia Dome with the crooked roof.

Washington Wizards Verizon Center(1997)* 1.32



Looking for a better pic. The arena is downtown in the Chinatown district.

Minnesota Timberwolves The Target Center(1990) 1.37



New Orleans Pelicans Smoothie King Center(1999) 1.5



^It's the aqua building next to the white Superdome.

Miami Heat American Airlines Arena(1999)* 1.54



Los Angeles Lakers/ Staples Center(1999) 1.88
Los Angeles Clippers 1.88






Denver Nuggets Pepsi Center(1999) 2.08



Chicago Bulls United Center(1994) 3.07



New York Knicks Madison Square Garden(1968) 3.08





Brooklyn Nets Barclays Center(2012) 3.25



San Antonio Spurs AT&T Center(2002) 4.01



Philadelphia 76ers Wells Fargo Center(1996) 6.14



Golden State Warriors Oracle Arena(1966)6.37 from Oakland, 17.35 miles to San Francisco (If they can beat back NIMBYS and get their privately financed arena in San Francisco they will be 2.78 miles from downtown)





Detroit Pistons The Palace of Auburn Hills(1988) 32.55 (owner is talking to the Illitches about move downtown)





Extra

Proposed Golden State Warriors Privately financed arena in San Francisco

[mikecubs]

MLB

Arizona Diamondbacks Chase Field(1998) 0.52



St. Louis Cardinals Busch Stadium(2006) 0.56



Cincinnati Reds Great American Ballpark(2003) 0.64



Minnesota Twins Target Field(2010) 0.7





Detroit Tigers Comerica Park(2000) 0.76




Baltimore Orioles Camden Yards(1992) 0.84



Pittsburgh Pirates PNC Park(2001) 0.9



San Diego Padres Petco Park(2004) 0.9










Cleveland Indians Progressive Field(1994) 0.93




Houston Astros Minute Maid Park(2000) 1.12



Seattle Mariners Safeco Field(1999)* 1.2




Toronto Blue Jays Rogers Centre(1989)* 1.52






Los Angeles Dodgers Dodger Stadium(1962) 1.8





^ I had to throw in a mountain pic

Colorado Rockies Coors Field(1995) 2.05



San Francisco Giants AT&T Park(2000) 2.21





The area across the water in right field is owned by the Giants and they are going to do a big development on it.

Boston Red Sox Fenway Park(1912) 2.47




Miami Marlins Marlins Park(2012) 3.09




Washington Nationals Nationals Park(2008) 3.52








Los Angeles Angels Angels Stadium(1966) 4.02





Milwaukee Brewers Miller Park(2001) 4.16




Chicago White Sox US Cellular Field(1991) 4.72



That idiot Jerry Reinsdorf nixed the idea of home plate facing the Chicago skyline when US Cellular Field was build, causing fans in the upper deck to lose a view of the Chicago skyline.

Oakland A's O.co Coliseum(1966)* 6.66



Chicago Cubs Wrigley Field(1914)* 6.82





Philadelphia Phillies Citizens Bank Park(2004) 6.82



Kansas City Royals Kauffman Stadium(1973) 7.59



There were ideas thrown around about building a new downtown ballpark around 2005. The Royals settled for a cheaper $250M renovation which was 90% publically financed. The stadium was built for $43M dollars in 1973 with 100% public financing. The Royals are one of MLB's worst drawing teams drawing in the low 20,000s other than this year since they made the world series last year.

New York Yankees Yankee Stadium(2009) 11.65





New York Mets Citi Field(2009) 13.24






Atlanta Braves SunTrust Park(2017) 13.82 (when this proposal come out they said it was 7 miles from downtown)



All the white rich fans live in the northern suburbs so this may work. The current stadium was closer to downtown but in one of Atlanta's roughest neighborhoods.



^^^ ticket sale map


Texas Rangers Globe Life Park in Arlington(1994) 17.91 from dallas 15.4 miles from Fort Worth



The first building is the Dallas Cowboys stadium, the brick building is the Rangers ballpark. This is the rare suburban facilitiy that rocks. It's sandwiched between Dallas and Fort Worth.


Tampa Bay Rays Tropicana Field(1990) Renovated (1998)* 22.58 (want replacement because of location)



^^^This isn't Tampa skyline this is St. Petersburg. The Rays want to move to Tampa by the Tampa Bay Lightening's arena. The Rays are by far the worst drawing team in MLB this year and historically.



I got this way back from a Tampa fan on HF boards. The circles are the major population centers



^^^Badly outdated data in terms of metro size but still check out the last column.


Extra

Montreal proposed park





I think this is something fans made on their own and isn't associated with the Cromartie group but if MLB comes back they should go with this design, it would rival San Francisco and Pittsburgh.

[sting]

I just came back from Kansas City and what a great stadium and location. It is an amazing ball park with lots of parking, great concessions,
no lines and great crowds. The fans were not coming to games in the past but it had nothing to do with location, it was almost 30 years
of one of the worst teams in baseball.

The Chiefs get huge crowds and play at the same spot.
Downtown is not the be all and end all. Winning makes a big difference.

[mikecubs]

^^^ I agree with you in a VERY rare few cases a suburban place can work. Still you want downtown in most cases because of walkups/casual fans/public transport/that's where the workers are. Kauffman's not horrible. I'm glad they didn't go downtown. While they would draw a few thousand more the stadium wouldn't have been as pretty. It's an awesome stadium I agree. One of my favorites!!! The loss of some fans(especially when they don't win) is totally worth it! Yes losing had a big part to do with attendance. No playoffs since 85. Still if you were downtown you'd gain more walkups especially when you have crappy teams. Chiefs are once a week 8 weeks a year. Suburbs are fine for NFL.

Overall though it's rare for suburban facilities to work. It can be done but the track record is awful. A few in MLB have worked or somewhat worked, NBA and NHL have had only one case of them working and that's only because the Detroit Pistons won a crazy amount the last 25 years. When they lose attendance doesn't just drop in outright craters violently. That's why the Pistons owner wants to move. They know that it's unlikely will win so much the next 25 years.

Here is how suburban facilities have faired.

MLB

Non downtown MLB stadiums that work or mostly work(given the market size of KC)
1.Texas- Rocks. Greatest suburban facility of all time hands down!!!! Awesome attendance.
2.Kansas City- gets by. Was given a mostly free stadium. Won't be taking on $500M in debt like Seattle NHL. Overall you can't blame just the location because they didn't win and you have to take into context Kansas city is one of MLB's smallest markets. Even if downtown was better it's not like they'd have top tier attendance most years.
3.Atlanta- to be determined. Will probably work the way Atlanta is laid out racially. Were given $300M in public stadium cash.

Failed non-downtown stadiums or major improvement moving downtown

1. Tampa- A 100% failure. Couldn't draw when they made the world series. Averaging in the teens. They've done studies where if they move downtown they will average in the mid- 20,000s. Still weak but survivable.
2. Miami- A failure when they played in the Dolphins suburban football stadium. Attendance isn't great downtown but its a lot better than the suburbs. At least they break 20,000 and aren't in the teens anymore. If Loria would just leave i think they could average in the mid 20,000s. They haven't won anything or sniffed a pennant race yet at the new park.
3. San Diego- They played in a suburban football stadium and couldn't draw. After moving downtown they've averaged almost 30,000 in their history at Petco Park. A total turn around.
4. Montreal- A downtown stadium would have saved them. Olympic Stadium murdered the Expos. Bad stadium, bad location.
5. Baltimore- They weren't suburban at Old Memorial Stadium but they weren't downtown either. The Orioles move downtown was the biggest thing business wise that ever happened in baseball the last 30 years. Everyone copycated the down-town retro Camden yards because they drew so well compare to Memorial Stadium.


NBA

Worked for a while because they insanely won
1. Detroit- Want to go downtown. Were very lucky they won so much.

Didn't work/better off downtown

1. Brooklyn Nets(former New Jersey Nets)- Played in suburban East Rutherford. Has terrible attendance. They didn't exist. They move to downtown Brooklyn a total instant turn around. They are now one of the NBA's most valuable teams and one of the glamour teams that elite free agents want to play for.
2. Cleveland- had a suburban arena between Cleveland and Akron. It sucked and they went downtown
3. Washington- the same as Cleveland
4. Sacramento- leaving crappy arco arena and moved downtown
5. LA Lakers- Left suburban Inglewood for the Staples Center. When they lost in Inglewood after Magic Johnson got AIDS, people didn't show up(lots of unused tickets). This year they had a rare awful season and people still came.
6. LA Clippers- They weren't suburban but they weren't downtown either. They played in the slums in the LA Sports Arena. They averaged 9,000-10,000 fans a season. They were the NBA Coyotes only FAR worse than the modern day Coyotes. In 99 they moved to the Staples Center. Attendance picked up to respectable levels after 2 year. Now they sell out(with B. Griffin and C. Paul) and just sold for $2B dollars!!! The lowest bid was $1.6B. A miraculous turn around.

NHL

All failures/better off downtown

1. Glendale- total failure. Biggest joke in sports history.
2. Sunrise-Almost the same as the Coyotes. At least this place does draw concerts. Panthers did better at old Miami Arena. I remember enthusiastic crowds when the started.
3. Ottawa- weakest Canadian team at the gate. Want a new arena after only 20 years. If Canadian fans weren't so dam awesome and this was an american market they would have went under.
4. Washington-see above. Landover sucked.
5. LA Kings- compare the attendance before and after the Staples Center. Total night and day. They only drew in Inglewood when the had Wayne and when he left attendance cratered. If I would have told someone 30 years ago where the kings would be today nobody would believe me. Greatest turn around in NHL history. NHL's version of the Clippers/Nets.
6. New York Islanders- Coyote like attendance and revenue the past 25 years. There was no public transit to the arena and the arena also was outdated. They move to Barclays they are picking up new fans from Brooklyn left and right. They expect 97% attendance at least this year.

Compare sunbelt teams like LA, San Jose, Dallas, Nashville and Tampa to Florida and Phoenix. LA, San Jose and Dallas are doing great. Check leaked gate data from the past. Nashville and Tampa don't make money but are trending the right way. People are coming to games cheaply. Look at the 3 worst drawing teams in the NHL the last 20 years. Coyotes, Panthers, Islanders. What did they have in common?

Overall when you look at it it's hard to find many places outside of NFL that aren't downtown or very close that you could call successful. Texas, Kansas City, mostly likely Atlanta and Detroit for a while but only when they insanely won. Compare that to the fail rate.

[Bruinsfan]

Jul 19, 2015 18:08:39 GMT -6 @hannujarvenpaa said:

Jul 19, 2015 17:03:59 GMT -6 Bruinsfan said:

granted you could put a stadium anywhere in boston and it would be close to downtown...because boston is a tiny city

Don't the Patriots play in Foxboro. How far is that from downtown?

about 40 miles, an hours drive and more with traffic.


IT sucks but it keeps the Pats in Massachusetts. The Pats should play on the seaport region where the convention center is but the nimbys said no

[Bruinsfan]

BTW football stadiums work in the burbs. Its one day a a week and usually on a weekend.

[mikecubs]

^^^ And only 8 games a year at home compare to 41 home games for NBA/NHL and 81 for MLB.