Blue Jays decision to keep Josh Donaldson=disaster(LOL)

[mikecubs]

Shapiro: Blue Jays would have hit reset a year ago if not for fans


One of the biggest questions among Toronto Blue Jays fans is whether the team should move forward with its current roster in search of contention or hit the reset button.

It’s a question Blue Jays president and CEO Mark Shapiro has asked, too, and he addressed the topic Wednesday on The Jeff Blair Show.

“I’ve said all along, if we were just running our team without fans and it was an intellectual exercise, we probably would’ve hit a reset over a year ago,” he said. “I’m not denying where we are and what the strategic alternatives are, but the reality is that a very, very, very high price was paid to put a team on the field that our fans responded to in just an incredible way across an entire country.”

The Blue Jays grabbed ahold of the nation with back-to-back playoff runs in 2015 and 2016, but stumbled out of the gates and fell out of contention early on in the 2017 season causing many to strongly question the direction of the club. For Shapiro, that includes thinking about the fans.

“As we deliberate on the different strategies and the different directions to go, we feel an obligation to try to field a contending, competitive team and at such a time we feel that is not possible, we will pivot,” Shapiro said. “Proactively pivoting, based upon the price paid and the way our fans have responded, that’s why we’re not doing that. That’s why we’re trying to remain competitive.”

Shapiro also shared his thoughts on top prospect Vladimir Guerrero Jr., who is garnering a lot of excitement around the baseball world, and discussed the status of renovations to both the team’s training facility as well as the Rogers Centre.


www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/shapiro-blue-jays-hit-reset-year-ago-not-fans/

[mikecubs]

The Jays have a VERY dumb fan base. The trend is young guys these days with steroid testing. Free Agency/older players DOES NOT WORK other than a handful of cases. Teams own a players rights for 7 years. When they hit free agency most players productive years are close to done other than a few odd cases. The Jays fans want even more old 30 year olds/free agents. The freaking Yankees don't use free agency much anymore because it's a failure. Most of this winters free agents are unsigned because teams don't want to commit to old guys. MLB network had a segment on last week on the free agent trends. Of the last 14 guys who got at least 20M a year and $100M total 11 to 12 are considered bad deals. The only good ones were Max Schurzer with Washington and Jon Lester with the Cubs. (And Lester slipped last year velocity wise and had an ERA over 4, the only reason he was considered worth it was 2016/the cubs winning it all). The host of the show said to NEVER sign a big free agent if you want to win. It's a VERY low % bet these days. You are paying for the downside of a guys career.

The vast majority of fans want to run Mark Shipiro out of town and he build great young Cleveland teams where he locked up the players to below market contract extensions through the players prime years/early 30's. The Indians contend every year and their window is wide open. According to Jay fans that is "minor league" and he should go back to Cleveland. Having old 30 year olds on big contracts and winning 77 games is major league. If they do succeed in running him out of town what executive would ever take a job where the requirement was you must only have a team of mostly 30 year olds? All you will get is former failed Cub GM's from the tribune days or guys just like them.

I really wonder about the long term future of the Jays. They have a bad stadium and are too dumb to replace it. They are ineligible for revenue sharing due to being a top 15 market. The casual fans demand to win but won't let the team rebuild. As far as the die hards, if you were a die hard why would you stick with the Jays? What would anyone get out of it? At least when the Cubs were this stupid you got the Wrigley experience.

What Jays fans are requesting would be like an NBA city demand no black players on a team and trying to win with an all white team. LOL

[mikecubs]

The biggest problem though more so then Jays fans thinking it's still the steroid era and free agency works is this. Say they eventually do catch on and figure out you have to get young players. You have to get enough young players to keep up with the Cubs and Astros of today and the Braves/White Sox of tomorrow. Your draft picks alone aren't enough because every team is run by smart ivy league nerds these days. You need an edge. The edge is TANKING like the Cubs/Astros/Royals/Braves/White Sox/Phillies/Padres/Pirates/Marlins/Indians/Reds did or are currently doing. When you tank you get prospects for your players who still have value plus you get to really SUCK for 3-4 years and get 3-4 high picks(hello Kris Bryant/Carlos Correa)

So for Toronto you'd have to do the following.

1. Trade Josh Donaldson. He is 32 and will be a free agent. He will be good a few more years but when Guerrero/Bichette are ready Donaldson will be making 20+ million and will be washed up.

2. Trade Kevin Pillar. He's a gold glover but he's 29 and relies on his speed. Get more assets when the youngsters are ready

3. Explore trading Marcus Stroman. He's young but small pitchers don't age well and he's already had 1 tommy john. Teams would trade a crap load of prospects for him.

4. Explore trading Roberto Osuna. Closers are a dime a dozen. Osuna has already had a tommy john.

5. Rebuild Aaron Sanchez's value then deal him. He's injury prone and the Jays will only have him 3 more years because he's a Scott Boras client.

6. With all 5 guys above gone the Jays would be GOD AWFUL for a few years meaning at least 3 high draft picks so you can pick a couple Kris Bryant/Carlos Correa's etc...

So in total the formula goes like this

Guerrero/Bichette/what ever prospects you have + Donaldson trade prospects+ Boatload of Stroman trade prospect + Osuna prospects+Pillar prospects + Sanchez prospects + 3-4 high draft picks for SUCKING!!!

You get waves of prospects doing this. Keeping the old team til they outright die you get just Guerrero/Bichette/whatever else you have(NOT ENOUGH)

The thing is I don't think you can sell tanking to a Canadians like you can to Americans. Most Canadians are much more old school. I think support will collapse Expos like for good if/when they figure out it's very hard to win without a tank job. I feel the vast majority will feel the game itself is immoral and give up on it kind of like people who think football is immoral due to CTE.

It could very well be that steroid testing will be the eventual demise of the Jays.

[mikecubs]

Donaldson’s injury setback a disaster for all parties

Josh Donaldson’s disappointing season has taken its latest sour turn, as the Toronto Blue Jays third baseman re-injured his left calf while rehabilitating at the club’s facility in Dunedin, Fla., and will miss at least the next three weeks.

The injury occurred as Donaldson was taking groundballs while preparing to play in a rehab game. An MRI revealed an acute strain of Donaldson’s left calf, and the 32-year-old will now sit out until mid-July when his injury will be re-evaluated.

“He was moving along fine, and then something happened,” said Blue Jays manager John Gibbons. “It’s been a frustrating year for him. He’s actually been hanging in there okay, all things considered. But he’s frustrated.”

Let’s take stock of how we got here. Donaldson entered 2018 — his final year before free agency — on a run of three consecutive seasons in which he posted an OPS of .939 or higher. Over the last five seasons, Donaldson’s 34.1 wins above replacement was second to only Mike Trout and Clayton Kershaw. Any way you slice it, he’s been one of the most valuable players in the game since his breakout campaign in 2013.

With that in mind, and with brief contract negotiations between his representatives and the Blue Jays this spring having gone nowhere, Donaldson was hoping to replicate that productivity in 2018, setting a strong platform to a large financial windfall during his first trip to free agency this coming winter. That’s where things went awry.

After playing sparsely during spring training due to a minor calf issue and shoulder fatigue, he began the regular season playing through what the Blue Jays described as a “dead arm” phase. His throwing from third base was clearly affected, and after only 12 games he went on the disabled list with right shoulder inflammation.

He returned three weeks later and was noticeably more comfortable making throws from third. He was in the Blue Jays lineup every day until May 28, when he left a game in the fifth inning with left calf tightness. Donaldson hasn’t played since.

Now, he’ll be out until at least the all-star break and almost certainly beyond as he tries to get back up to speed. It’s worth noting Donaldson has dealt with similar issues in the past, missing a third of the season in 2017 due to a strain in his right calf.

Through the 36 games he’s played this season, Donaldson is hitting .234/.333/.423 with five home runs — a respectable line, but well below the elite level of production he’s demonstrated over the last half decade. His 27.7 per cent strikeout rate is well above his career average, and his .190 isolated power is well below.

[b]From the Blue Jays perspective, what was thought to be one of the club’s most tantalizing chips ahead of the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline is now off the table[/b]. With so much uncertainty surrounding when Donaldson will be able to play again, and how productive he’ll be when he returns, it will be impossible for the Blue Jays to find the return they were once anticipating for the 2015 MVP winner.[/u]

Now, the Blue Jays will hope Donaldson can return before long and be productive so the team can explore a possible August trade, which would require putting him on waivers. If he isn’t traded before the end of the season, the Blue Jays would then have a decision to make regarding extending Donaldson a one-year qualifying offer, which would be in the $17-18 million range.

From Donaldson’s perspective, the first half of his season has been nothing short of disastrous. His value on the open market has plummeted considerably, and with each day he’s out of action and not producing in the majors, dollars bleed off the free agent contract he was hoping to sign this coming off-season.

Of course, it’s possible Donaldson could return late this season and prove he’s still the prodigious hitter he’s been in the past. In 2017, Donaldson struggled at the plate until late July, before going on a ridiculous tear through the end of the season, batting .303/.407/.697 with 24 home runs over his final 55 games.

But the clock is ticking. Toronto’s season will be well into its latter half by the time Donaldson is expected to return from his latest injury. And what he’s able to accomplish between that point and the end of the season will go a long way to resolving the many questions still to be answered.

www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/blue-jays-donaldson-injury-setback-disaster/

[mikecubs]

See my post above on the trades the Jays should have made. It was obvious it was going to be a disaster to let the casual fans(which most Jays fans are) to run the team. Bill Parcells once said if you let fans make decisions you will up sitting with the fans.

The bigger mistake was not moving Marcus Stroman. He's missed most of the year with shoulder issues. Teams leery of signing Yu Darvish(hurt all year and mentally weak) and Jake Arrieta(declining velocity) would have given up a crap load of prospects for him.

The one good thing is the Jays have the best prospect in baseball Vlad Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette(a top 5 prospect). The bad thing is they don't have enough on the farm or MLB roster to build a championship type club around them due to casual fans taking control of the team and not allowing aging popular vets to be dealt when they still had value. The thing is unlike most players Guerrero and Bichette will hit free agency at 27 and 28 years old respectively. Given that most MLB teams shun 30 year olds due to roid testing and very few MLB players hit free agency at a young age MLB teams will be plotting years in advance of luring them away. For their entire Jays careers there will be the black cloud of them leaving/constant rumors.

The Jays "fan base" couldn't stomach trading Josh Donaldson at age 32 when there was no chance in hell he could be part of the next contending team given his age and how far away the Jays were from contention coming into this year. But life literally wasn't worth living without Josh. Imagine what happens to the "fan base" if a 27 year old Vlad Guerrero walks away due to the Jays being non competitive. If losing a 32 year old was too much that wasn't every going to be part of the next Jays good club how will they take losing a 27 year old superstar? I think that will be the equivalent of the 94 strike to the Expos. The "fan base" will blame the economic system, Americans, everyone other than themselves hijacking the team and not allowing a rebuild.