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Post by sgtbarnes on Dec 1, 2023 16:51:19 GMT -6
Blaming Hellebuyck is an easy out for Jet fans that think this team is so much better than last years version. They haven't shown it yet. Consistency is what is needed.
I don't care who the goalie is. Rope-a-dope hockey is not taking you anywhere in the playoffs.
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Post by sgtbarnes on Dec 1, 2023 17:19:53 GMT -6
I'm coming around to thinking Bowness is the problem. As a head coach, this guy has lost way more games than he has won. Way more.
So maybe his "system" doesn't work on a consistent basis.
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Post by 2b9 on Dec 1, 2023 17:41:37 GMT -6
Anybody concerned the cumulative total of Scheif and Connor is -11? What’s new about that?
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Post by 2b9 on Dec 1, 2023 17:51:58 GMT -6
I'm coming around to thinking Bowness is the problem. As a head coach, this guy has lost way more games than he has won. Way more. So maybe his "system" doesn't work on a consistent basis. Yep. Bowness was the Jets second choice. Maybe the Jets only choice based on the fact that Trotz turned the Jets down due to circumstances. I’m not saying anything bad about Bowness, I know that he is a good person, however, as you have stated, won/loss record is not good, it’s never been good, other than a short period of time with Dallas, and Dallas chose not to renew him, I’m not sure why. Does it say something about Dallas not renewing him even though he helped improve Dallas? Hmmm🤔.
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Post by sgtbarnes on Dec 1, 2023 18:55:26 GMT -6
I'm coming around to thinking Bowness is the problem. As a head coach, this guy has lost way more games than he has won. Way more. So maybe his "system" doesn't work on a consistent basis. Yep. Bowness was the Jets second choice. Maybe the Jets only choice based on the fact that Trotz turned the Jets down due to circumstances. I’m not saying anything bad about Bowness, I know that he is a good person, however, as you have stated, won/loss record is not good, it’s never been good, other than a short period of time with Dallas, and Dallas chose not to renew him, I’m not sure why. Does it say something about Dallas not renewing him even though he helped improve Dallas? Hmmm🤔. His winning percentage is .363. Very few head coaches with numbers like that have been able to pile up as many games coached. They generally don't get hired. Add to that the acrimony last season ended with, and it's food for thought. I'm not quite there yet, but doubts are beginning to creep in.
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Post by 2b9 on Dec 1, 2023 19:02:58 GMT -6
Yep. Bowness was the Jets second choice. Maybe the Jets only choice based on the fact that Trotz turned the Jets down due to circumstances. I’m not saying anything bad about Bowness, I know that he is a good person, however, as you have stated, won/loss record is not good, it’s never been good, other than a short period of time with Dallas, and Dallas chose not to renew him, I’m not sure why. Does it say something about Dallas not renewing him even though he helped improve Dallas? Hmmm🤔. His winning percentage is .363. Very few head coaches with numbers like that have been able to pile up as many games coached. They generally don't get hired. Add to that the acrimony last season ended with, and it's food for thought. I'm not quite there yet, but doubts are beginning to creep in. I hear ya. Time will tell. Don’t forget, Bones signed a 2 year Contract. Bones stated that once the 2 year contract is done, he is retiring. This is year 2 of the 2 year contract.
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Post by lenny on Dec 2, 2023 7:47:29 GMT -6
Yep. Bowness was the Jets second choice. Maybe the Jets only choice based on the fact that Trotz turned the Jets down due to circumstances. I’m not saying anything bad about Bowness, I know that he is a good person, however, as you have stated, won/loss record is not good, it’s never been good, other than a short period of time with Dallas, and Dallas chose not to renew him, I’m not sure why. Does it say something about Dallas not renewing him even though he helped improve Dallas? Hmmm🤔. His winning percentage is .363. Very few head coaches with numbers like that have been able to pile up as many games coached. They generally don't get hired. Add to that the acrimony last season ended with, and it's food for thought. I'm not quite there yet, but doubts are beginning to creep in. This was one of the first things i pointed out when he was hired. His winning %. In a business where winning is everything TN was banking on his relatively recent success with Dallas as a justification for the hire. It looked good up until somewhere in January then it was marginal at best. One might argue and say well look it, this was a broken ship internally and the fact he brought it to shore for a brief playoff run was a feat in and of itself. But this issue is moot because as noted this is probably his last run. One thing you can be assured of there will always be a fired coach somewhere for hire.
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Post by bigoljetairliner on Dec 2, 2023 8:39:43 GMT -6
His winning percentage is .363. Very few head coaches with numbers like that have been able to pile up as many games coached. They generally don't get hired. Add to that the acrimony last season ended with, and it's food for thought. I'm not quite there yet, but doubts are beginning to creep in. This was one of the first things i pointed out when he was hired. His winning %. In a business where winning is everything TN was banking on his relatively recent success with Dallas as a justification for the hire. It looked good up until somewhere in January then it was marginal at best. One might argue and say well look it, this was a broken ship internally and the fact he brought it to shore for a brief playoff run was a feat in and of itself. But this issue is moot because as noted this is probably his last run. One thing you can be assured of there will always be a fired coach somewhere for hire. Sometimes statistics require a bit of perspective and I think Bowness' overall record would be an example of that. His head coaching career started when he took over mid-year behind the bench for a bad Winnipeg Jets team (1988-89). His next stop was a 1 yr stop with the Boston Bruins, where he brought them to the 3rd round of the playoffs, but was replaced by a Sutter the following season. Then he spent parts of 4 seasons with the expansion Ottawa Senators (before NHL teams were gifted decent teams in expansions) and unsurprisingly, his win-loss record during this period was not good. His next stop was with the NY Islanders, when he took over mid-season and then coached the full year after that. When he took over, the Isles had three straight last place finishes in their division and his full season with the team resulted in their best record in a 7 season span. Finally, Bowness once again took over in the middle of the year, this time with Phoenix in 2003-04. After that, he had stops in Dallas before coming to Winnipeg. So, if you took out his win-loss record in the years he took over for a fired coach and the expansion Senators time, his record is 185 wins, 154 losses, 21 ties, & 25 overtime/shootout losses. I'm not saying that he's a great coach, just that looking at his entire win-loss record really doesn't tell the full story of his coaching career, in my opinion.
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Post by Ric O. on Dec 2, 2023 9:19:37 GMT -6
I wouldn't say Bowness is the greatest coach either but I really liked the job he did last year and carrying over through training camp this year. It was obviously a dirty job trying to get that room turned around (and on ice accountability too).
To take the C away from Wheeler, etc., to break the eggs to make the omelette, I think you pretty much needed to have a veteran coach like him who wouldn't be here long term and garners some respect for the time he's been in the league and I think a pretty solid track record.
Hopefully the next guy will be stepping into a much better situation due in large part to Bowness' work...imo
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Post by sgtbarnes on Dec 2, 2023 12:40:04 GMT -6
One can rationalize his horrible win percentage based on circumstance. Fair enough. I've never followed a Bowness coached team until he came to Winnipeg. I certainly didn't like what I saw last year. So many games where the team just did not seem prepared or motivated. Game 5 in Vegas anyone? And little hints of that here and there this year.
Like I said. I'm not all the way there that this is a coaching issue, but I'm starting to wonder. He's 3-6 behind the bench this year. Let's see how it goes.
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Post by lenny on Dec 2, 2023 13:15:00 GMT -6
This was one of the first things i pointed out when he was hired. His winning %. In a business where winning is everything TN was banking on his relatively recent success with Dallas as a justification for the hire. It looked good up until somewhere in January then it was marginal at best. One might argue and say well look it, this was a broken ship internally and the fact he brought it to shore for a brief playoff run was a feat in and of itself. But this issue is moot because as noted this is probably his last run. One thing you can be assured of there will always be a fired coach somewhere for hire. Sometimes statistics require a bit of perspective and I think Bowness' overall record would be an example of that. His head coaching career started when he took over mid-year behind the bench for a bad Winnipeg Jets team (1988-89). His next stop was a 1 yr stop with the Boston Bruins, where he brought them to the 3rd round of the playoffs, but was replaced by a Sutter the following season. Then he spent parts of 4 seasons with the expansion Ottawa Senators (before NHL teams were gifted decent teams in expansions) and unsurprisingly, his win-loss record during this period was not good. His next stop was with the NY Islanders, when he took over mid-season and then coached the full year after that. When he took over, the Isles had three straight last place finishes in their division and his full season with the team resulted in their best record in a 7 season span. Finally, Bowness once again took over in the middle of the year, this time with Phoenix in 2003-04. After that, he had stops in Dallas before coming to Winnipeg. So, if you took out his win-loss record in the years he took over for a fired coach and the expansion Senators time, his record is 185 wins, 154 losses, 21 ties, & 25 overtime/shootout losses. I'm not saying that he's a great coach, just that looking at his entire win-loss record really doesn't tell the full story of his coaching career, in my opinion. Sorry. We can give him some cred for taking over an expansion team. But my man between 92-95 (94-95 shortened lockout year) in roughly 216 games he had about 34 wins. He's fired in 95-96 season starting the season poorly, Jacque Martin takes over and the very next season Martin brings the Senators to the playoffs for the first time and then if that weren't enough to the playoffs for seven straight seasons. Listen, the coach takes the team and you can't bury the stats if they work against the narrative. You can't erase history. It is what it is as they say.
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Post by bigoljetairliner on Dec 2, 2023 14:00:09 GMT -6
Sometimes statistics require a bit of perspective and I think Bowness' overall record would be an example of that. His head coaching career started when he took over mid-year behind the bench for a bad Winnipeg Jets team (1988-89). His next stop was a 1 yr stop with the Boston Bruins, where he brought them to the 3rd round of the playoffs, but was replaced by a Sutter the following season. Then he spent parts of 4 seasons with the expansion Ottawa Senators (before NHL teams were gifted decent teams in expansions) and unsurprisingly, his win-loss record during this period was not good. His next stop was with the NY Islanders, when he took over mid-season and then coached the full year after that. When he took over, the Isles had three straight last place finishes in their division and his full season with the team resulted in their best record in a 7 season span. Finally, Bowness once again took over in the middle of the year, this time with Phoenix in 2003-04. After that, he had stops in Dallas before coming to Winnipeg. So, if you took out his win-loss record in the years he took over for a fired coach and the expansion Senators time, his record is 185 wins, 154 losses, 21 ties, & 25 overtime/shootout losses. I'm not saying that he's a great coach, just that looking at his entire win-loss record really doesn't tell the full story of his coaching career, in my opinion. Sorry. We can give him some cred for taking over an expansion team. But my man between 92-95 (94-95 shortened lockout year) in roughly 216 games he had about 34 wins. He's fired in 95-96 season starting the season poorly, Jacque Martin takes over and the very next season Martin brings the Senators to the playoffs for the first time and then if that weren't enough to the playoffs for seven straight seasons. Listen, the coach takes the team and you can't bury the stats if they work against the narrative. You can't erase history. It is what it is as they say. Whatever, you can gloss over the talent level a coach has to work with, I won't. Bowness had to coach the Sens with a terrible roster as they drafted and developed talent. Coaches rarely last longer than 4 to 6 years and his time was up & message getting stale just as Ottawa started to have the talent to challenge the top teams. But it's a waste of time going on, so we will agree to disagree.
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Post by sgtbarnes on Dec 4, 2023 13:14:31 GMT -6
Here's my final thought on this topic. Bones had pretty decent talent to work with last year, one would have to admit.
We barely made the playoffs and our playoff performance was, well, disgusting. So, there's that.
So, it remains to be seen if he can bring out the best in this group. That's the job description.
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