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Post by Ric O. on Apr 10, 2024 12:14:22 GMT -6
Was a terrible decision by Stanley to drop the gloves. No reason at all. Got the crowd into the game and gave them momentum. This was a quote for a Predators' fan site about last night's game... " I've never been at a game where a fight actually changed the vibe that much- the entire crowd changed after that" So you were bang on....no need to fight with a two goal lead unless it is to "protect" one of your players. Not that either really won the fight, but crowds like to see the opposing player go down even if there was no punch to cause it. I somewhat agree, I also didn't like the fight but with a little different perspective.
From the heat maps you posted on AIC (or for those of us who watched it happen), the Jets were being badly caved in for a long time already before the fight. They had a 2 goal lead before the fight and they had a 2 goal lead after the fight. I suppose it could be argued that Jets were being even more caved in after the fight. Maybe. But I think the fight was a way to recognize, "we're getting killed here for a period and a half, let's get going guys before we blow this thing!" I don't know why else he would have fought there, but he gave it a go.
Assuming he wasn't asked by coach to fight (I doubt he was), Stan's miscalculation was this: even if Stan had knocked the guy into next week, I think it would have had no positive effect whatsoever on the Jets play. If anything our little guys would shrivel even more out of fear of retaliation. Jets just never seem to get a bump from that kind of thing, so why bother?
To me, the way the Jets were playing, they were destined to blow that lead with or without the fight. Stan's the 2nd last guy deserving of blame for that...Helle being the least deserving of course.
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Post by bigoljetairliner on Apr 10, 2024 12:30:48 GMT -6
I agree with all that....I certainly don't blame Stanley for the collapse. Others did worse things (turnovers/lost puck battles) to give Nashville hope.
Often fights are more about getting the crowd involved and thus inspiring the home team, so I think there was very little upside for the road team to get involved with a scrap when they had a lead and a fairly quiet crowd watching them play.
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Post by Tracker on Apr 10, 2024 13:18:56 GMT -6
Hellebuyck saved the Jets' bacon but he did not look as good as he has on the first and third goals. He seemed to be off a tad all game, but made some key saves anyways. Similarly, the Jets won the game but not in any fashion to give comfort to their fans. I have to give kudos to Scheifele who was not spectacular but solid all game and came through when needed.
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Post by gobombersgo on Apr 10, 2024 18:28:54 GMT -6
Hellebuyck saved the Jets' bacon but he did not look as good as he has on the first and third goals. He seemed to be off a tad all game, but made some key saves anyways. Similarly, the Jets won the game but not in any fashion to give comfort to their fans. I have to give kudos to Scheifele who was not spectacular but solid all game and came through when needed. Helly was the furthest thing from a tad off all game.
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Post by 2b9 on Apr 10, 2024 19:05:28 GMT -6
Hellebuyck saved the Jets' bacon but he did not look as good as he has on the first and third goals. He seemed to be off a tad all game, but made some key saves anyways. Similarly, the Jets won the game but not in any fashion to give comfort to their fans. I have to give kudos to Scheifele who was not spectacular but solid all game and came through when needed. Helly was the furthest thing from a tad off all game. Helly pulled us out and through this game, in my opinion. It was an ugly win for the Jets, however, at least they won being as ugly a game by the Jets as it was, I’ll take that as a positive. Just my thoughts and opinion👍. Cheers, 2b9😉😃👍
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Post by bigoljetairliner on Apr 11, 2024 9:15:08 GMT -6
This was a quote for a Predators' fan site about last night's game... " I've never been at a game where a fight actually changed the vibe that much- the entire crowd changed after that" So you were bang on....no need to fight with a two goal lead unless it is to "protect" one of your players. Not that either really won the fight, but crowds like to see the opposing player go down even if there was no punch to cause it. I somewhat agree, I also didn't like the fight but with a little different perspective.
From the heat maps you posted on AIC (or for those of us who watched it happen), the Jets were being badly caved in for a long time already before the fight. They had a 2 goal lead before the fight and they had a 2 goal lead after the fight. I suppose it could be argued that Jets were being even more caved in after the fight. Maybe. But I think the fight was a way to recognize, "we're getting killed here for a period and a half, let's get going guys before we blow this thing!" I don't know why else he would have fought there, but he gave it a go.
Assuming he wasn't asked by coach to fight (I doubt he was), Stan's miscalculation was this: even if Stan had knocked the guy into next week, I think it would have had no positive effect whatsoever on the Jets play. If anything our little guys would shrivel even more out of fear of retaliation. Jets just never seem to get a bump from that kind of thing, so why bother?
To me, the way the Jets were playing, they were destined to blow that lead with or without the fight. Stan's the 2nd last guy deserving of blame for that...Helle being the least deserving of course.
Read an article from The Hockey News about the fight being the turning point and it mentioned that Nashville outshot Winnipeg 6-1 right after the fight, which is a higher ratio than the 2nd period (22-5) and the entire game (48-22), so it does actually appear that the Preds stepped up their game post-scrap. thehockeynews.com/nhl/nashville-predators/latest-news/how-michael-mccarron-lit-a-fire-under-predators-in-playoff-clinching-contest
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Post by lenny on Apr 11, 2024 9:53:25 GMT -6
I somewhat agree, I also didn't like the fight but with a little different perspective. From the heat maps you posted on AIC (or for those of us who watched it happen), the Jets were being badly caved in for a long time already before the fight. They had a 2 goal lead before the fight and they had a 2 goal lead after the fight. I suppose it could be argued that Jets were being even more caved in after the fight. Maybe. But I think the fight was a way to recognize, "we're getting killed here for a period and a half, let's get going guys before we blow this thing!" I don't know why else he would have fought there, but he gave it a go. Assuming he wasn't asked by coach to fight (I doubt he was), Stan's miscalculation was this: even if Stan had knocked the guy into next week, I think it would have had no positive effect whatsoever on the Jets play. If anything our little guys would shrivel even more out of fear of retaliation. Jets just never seem to get a bump from that kind of thing, so why bother? To me, the way the Jets were playing, they were destined to blow that lead with or without the fight. Stan's the 2nd last guy deserving of blame for that...Helle being the least deserving of course.
Read an article from The Hockey News about the fight being the turning point and it mentioned that Nashville outshot Winnipeg 6-1 right after the fight, which is a higher ratio than the 2nd period (22-5) and the entire game (48-22), so it does actually appear that the Preds stepped up their game post-scrap. thehockeynews.com/nhl/nashville-predators/latest-news/how-michael-mccarron-lit-a-fire-under-predators-in-playoff-clinching-contestYep. Notice how the crowd roared and everyone viewed the Jets team as the losers on the fight. It's all in the appearance. M and M throws a big punch and it does no damage except hit the back of Stanley's helmet but Stanley who for some reason seemed totally off balance the entire engagement goes down. The appearance is terrible. Even "The Tennessean" headlines screamed, justifiably, "Michael McCarron on his fight with Logan Stanley that sparked Nashville Predators comeback". Well a come back is only a come back when you win The Tennessean! But i get their point. For some reason Stanley's giving me Jim Kyte vibes. Another big guy felled and never the same afterwards.
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Post by Tracker on Apr 11, 2024 15:57:18 GMT -6
Yep. Notice how the crowd roared and everyone viewed the Jets team as the losers on the fight. It's all in the appearance. M and M throws a big punch and it does no damage except hit the back of Stanley's helmet but Stanley who for some reason seemed totally off balance the entire engagement goes down. The appearance is terrible. Even "The Tennessean" headlines screamed, justifiably, "Michael McCarron on his fight with Logan Stanley that sparked Nashville Predators comeback". Well a come back is only a come back when you win The Tennessean! But i get their point. For some reason Stanley's giving me Jim Kyte vibes. Another big guy felled and never the same afterwards. Kocur knew that Kyte wore hearing aids and in that fight, he deliberately targeted Kytes' ears. If you hit a hearing aid hard enough, it lets out a deafening squawk right into the ear of the wearer. After that, the word was out on how to beat Kyte. Dirty play, but effective and it soured Kyte on being an NHL player.
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Post by Ric O. on Apr 11, 2024 18:20:49 GMT -6
I somewhat agree, I also didn't like the fight but with a little different perspective.
From the heat maps you posted on AIC (or for those of us who watched it happen), the Jets were being badly caved in for a long time already before the fight. They had a 2 goal lead before the fight and they had a 2 goal lead after the fight. I suppose it could be argued that Jets were being even more caved in after the fight. Maybe. But I think the fight was a way to recognize, "we're getting killed here for a period and a half, let's get going guys before we blow this thing!" I don't know why else he would have fought there, but he gave it a go.
Assuming he wasn't asked by coach to fight (I doubt he was), Stan's miscalculation was this: even if Stan had knocked the guy into next week, I think it would have had no positive effect whatsoever on the Jets play. If anything our little guys would shrivel even more out of fear of retaliation. Jets just never seem to get a bump from that kind of thing, so why bother?
To me, the way the Jets were playing, they were destined to blow that lead with or without the fight. Stan's the 2nd last guy deserving of blame for that...Helle being the least deserving of course.
Read an article from The Hockey News about the fight being the turning point and it mentioned that Nashville outshot Winnipeg 6-1 right after the fight, which is a higher ratio than the 2nd period (22-5) and the entire game (48-22), so it does actually appear that the Preds stepped up their game post-scrap. thehockeynews.com/nhl/nashville-predators/latest-news/how-michael-mccarron-lit-a-fire-under-predators-in-playoff-clinching-contestNot sure how THN counts shots but according to the NHL play by play, Jets got their last shot before the fight in the 2nd period at 14:32. Preds then went on a 7-0 shot run prior to the fight. Shots were 4-1 Preds between the fight and the goal, including the goal. Plus, Jets had the last shot before the goal...so if we're going to use the shot count, it could be argued that Jets actually got a bump from the fight? Laughable of course, but 22-5 and 6-1 to me are the same thing (even if the 6-1 count is correct), one team caving in the other. 22-5 actually seems to me to have more meaningful statistical weight.
Plus, 6 minutes, like 10% of the game between the fight and the 3-2 goal hardly seems like Preds got a sudden rush. Compared to the rush they got from the 3-2 goal, where they got 3 shots and another goal just 2 mins later.
I don't know, the only reason I bothered to dig into those shots is because I had a feeling that maybe someone from Nashville at THN had some reason for trying to pin the change of game on Stanley. Crowd got a bump from the fight...for sure. Does that mean Preds also got a bump...I would think yes, they probably did. Yet, it seems also like saying Jets get a bump from the WhiteOut...not sure there's ever been any evidence of that!
Well I still don't like the fight for the reasons I stated. Too bad Stan has to be the guy to fight because he's not very good at it and probably doesn't enjoy it much... but I guess 6'7 in the NHL or at least on this team, you've got to be that guy.
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Post by bigoljetairliner on Apr 11, 2024 18:27:26 GMT -6
Cool, didn't bother to check their work.
But really, the original post didn't say anything about the fight causing the comeback, all it said was that the mood of the crowd changed remarkably after the scrap. Whether that helped the Preds (or hurt the Jets) is pretty difficult to determine. Though noise is annoying....ever tried putting on a really windy day? That constant noise by my ears always impacted my golf game, despite my low altitude normal shots being great to avoid the wind. Could see it impacting communication, at least.
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Post by 2b9 on Apr 11, 2024 18:29:32 GMT -6
Cool, didn't bother to check their work. But really, the original post didn't say anything about the fight causing the comeback, all it said was that the mood of the crowd changed remarkably after the scrap. Whether that helped the Preds (or hurt the Jets) is pretty difficult to determine. Though noise is annoying....ever tried putting on a really windy day? That constant noise by my ears always impacted my golf game, despite my low altitude normal shots being great to avoid the wind. Could see it impacting communication, at least. 😉👍!
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