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Post by bcmike on Mar 26, 2018 10:11:09 GMT -6
I was reading through this thread a little more and agree whole heartedly that Quebec is definitely a missed opportunity for the NHL, especially with Canadian media outlets signing billion dollar rights deals, why wouldn't you want to add another Candadian team?
The point you touched on regarding demographics is somewhat troubling, being active in minor hockey and other sports I'm seeing this from ground zero. On the bright side I'm seeing a real grassroots ground swell of support from the Punjabi community with a lot of kids entering the system and playing at high levels. Now the bad news, even those who might be, to use a polite term, in the traditional demographic are turning away from hockey. I know lots of multi sport families that have fantastic young athletes that won't even consider hockey and here are the predominant themes as to why:
1) It's too expensive. If you have more than one child wanting to play hockey, be prepared for a second mortgage. I kid but if you have a kid that shows a lot of talent and wants to play at a high level its not that far off. Conversely, soccer is a pair of cleats, a ball, and maybe $200.00 in association fees. Basketball is the same and even football fronts the equipment.
2) My kids going to get hurt. Like it or not concussions are in the news, even though Hockey Canada has taken a lot of steps to protect young players with concussion protocol and the elimination of hitting in house leagues, hockey gets a real bad wrap in this regard.
3) The parents are mental and the politics is crazy. You can't really deny this and this is something that needs to get corrected before you're going to attract new people. Although I will say football is worse...
So now lets say you're a new Canadian, first the cost makes it way out of reach (like not even close), second even though once you arrive in minor hockey it's pretty welcoming from the outside looking in It must look pretty daunting. Strange equipment, insane parents, weird practice times, you get the picture. Soccer and basketball look like pretty good deals in comparison especially if you grew up playing soccer.
So IMHO here's what hockey needs and it needs it now: Outreach, outreach and more outreach. All of the alternative sports show up at the elementary schools and do info sessions, but hockey is nowhere to be found. Minor hockey is resting on it laurels and its shouldn't be, not at all. There needs to be active recruitment in the community, equipment programs and educational programs to put parents at ease with hockey. The NHL also needs to spend WAYYYYYYY more time and money in this area and should have much, much closer ties to minor hockey. Everyone in Canadian hockey really needs to get their head out of their ass and stop assuming that its status as "Canadas Game" is god given. There are definite cracks in the foundation and they need to be addressed
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Post by mikecubs on Mar 27, 2018 3:15:48 GMT -6
I was reading through this thread a little more and agree whole heartedly that Quebec is definitely a missed opportunity for the NHL, especially with Canadian media outlets signing billion dollar rights deals, why wouldn't you want to add another Candadian team? The point you touched on regarding demographics is somewhat troubling, being active in minor hockey and other sports I'm seeing this from ground zero. On the bright side I'm seeing a real grassroots ground swell of support from the Punjabi community with a lot of kids entering the system and playing at high levels. Now the bad news, even those who might be, to use a polite term, in the traditional demographic are turning away from hockey. I know lots of multi sport families that have fantastic young athletes that won't even consider hockey and here are the predominant themes as to why: 1) It's too expensive. If you have more than one child wanting to play hockey, be prepared for a second mortgage. I kid but if you have a kid that shows a lot of talent and wants to play at a high level its not that far off. Conversely, soccer is a pair of cleats, a ball, and maybe $200.00 in association fees. Basketball is the same and even football fronts the equipment. 2) My kids going to get hurt. Like it or not concussions are in the news, even though Hockey Canada has taken a lot of steps to protect young players with concussion protocol and the elimination of hitting in house leagues, hockey gets a real bad wrap in this regard. 3) The parents are mental and the politics is crazy. You can't really deny this and this is something that needs to get corrected before you're going to attract new people. Although I will say football is worse... So now lets say you're a new Canadian, first the cost makes it way out of reach (like not even close), second even though once you arrive in minor hockey it's pretty welcoming from the outside looking in It must look pretty daunting. Strange equipment, insane parents, weird practice times, you get the picture. Soccer and basketball look like pretty good deals in comparison especially if you grew up playing soccer. So IMHO here's what hockey needs and it needs it now: Outreach, outreach and more outreach. All of the alternative sports show up at the elementary schools and do info sessions, but hockey is nowhere to be found. Minor hockey is resting on it laurels and its shouldn't be, not at all. There needs to be active recruitment in the community, equipment programs and educational programs to put parents at ease with hockey. The NHL also needs to spend WAYYYYYYY more time and money in this area and should have much, much closer ties to minor hockey. Everyone in Canadian hockey really needs to get their head out of their ass and stop assuming that its status as "Canadas Game" is god given. There are definite cracks in the foundation and they need to be addressed That you this well written VERY informative post!!!!!
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Post by wolfmannick on Mar 27, 2018 11:00:06 GMT -6
My Quebec friends on Twitter believe that a) It's a Habs conspiracy b) That the NHL doesn't like PKP and his separatist politics. I think option A is just regional rivalry coming out, however option B seems valid considering PKP is a pretty hardcore separatist and the NHL board of governors has a powerful anglo Canadian block along with an aversion to change. I've been thinking about this post lately, mainly because I'm into conspiracy theories lol. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the NHL told Quebec not to give pkp control of the arena because they won't approve him as an owner and they went ahead with it anyway. Quebec politics is not know for their forethought lol
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Post by mikecubs on Apr 20, 2018 20:46:38 GMT -6
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Post by bcmike on Jul 6, 2018 11:48:35 GMT -6
I keep hearing fans say Ottawa would be better off in Quebec City. I'm wondering has anyone heard any concrete rumors that this might actually be a possibility (I haven't)?
Melnyk seems to universally despised but I'm not sure if he's not interested in owning a team anymore.
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Post by wolfmannick on Jul 6, 2018 14:27:35 GMT -6
I keep hearing fans say Ottawa would be better off in Quebec City. I'm wondering has anyone heard any concrete rumors that this might actually be a possibility (I haven't)? Melnyk seems to universally despised but I'm not sure if he's not interested in owning a team anymore. Melnyk has been pretty adamant he's not selling the team. Last I heard he was working to get a downtown arena. Although he should sell the team to local investors he's the cause of a large number of the off ice issues.
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Post by mikecubs on Jul 6, 2018 20:26:28 GMT -6
I keep hearing fans say Ottawa would be better off in Quebec City. I'm wondering has anyone heard any concrete rumors that this might actually be a possibility (I haven't)? Melnyk seems to universally despised but I'm not sure if he's not interested in owning a team anymore. Nothing realistic just a bunch of spec of HF boards. Ottawa is bigger than Quebec and they have a great TV deal. Ottawa while they don't sell out takes way the hell too much abuse from people on both sides of the border. Suburban arenas and nut job owners are a bad combination. You get a real owner and downtown arena all this goes away.
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Post by bcmike on Jul 9, 2018 15:49:52 GMT -6
So the only hope for Quebec is for a US team to get in a lot of trouble and re-locate. How is Phoenix doing? Are they still a losing proposition or do they break even?
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Post by wolfmannick on Jul 9, 2018 16:59:22 GMT -6
So the only hope for Quebec is for a US team to get in a lot of trouble and re-locate. How is Phoenix doing? Are they still a losing proposition or do they break even? Last I heard they're still trying to build a new arena in the Phoenix area. If that doesn't work I'm sure the nhl will move them to Houston over Quebec so they don't have to deal with re alignment
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Post by phillymike on Jul 9, 2018 18:13:59 GMT -6
Sadly, I don’t see Quebec getting an NHL franchise. Nice taxpayer paid arena though.
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Post by mikecubs on Jul 9, 2018 22:45:24 GMT -6
So the only hope for Quebec is for a US team to get in a lot of trouble and re-locate. How is Phoenix doing? Are they still a losing proposition or do they break even? Per forbes they lost $19M last year. They are the same old money losing pit as always. COO Steve Patterson last week resigned after only one year on the job because “has a number of other business ventures that he’s involved in and decided it was the right time for him to move along.” www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nhl/coyotes/2018/07/03/arizona-coyotes-news-ahron-cohen-replace-steve-patterson-president-ceo/757136002/Patterson was with the Houston Rockets when they won NBA titles in 94,95 and there was excitement from the few Coyotes fans that they have that he could get them a new arena with his local Arizona connections. There were rumors on HF boards a few months ago that the Rockets owner wants the Coyotes but at his price ala Paul Allen and that the reason they haven't moved is because a standoff with the NHL. With the Coyotes is my guess is they rot in Arizona and both Quebec and Houston go without NHL unfortunately.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 2, 2018 15:38:25 GMT -6
ESPN did a thing where the NFL,NBA, MLB, NHL and minor league sports like WNBA/MLS should expand including a fan vote. Quebec City won in a land slide for the NHL and was second overall to Seattle(NBA) in term of every sport. For the NFL they missed San Diego!!! I bet that's why other won. Results of the fan vote NHLQuebec City 50%Houston 29 % Other 21 % NBASeattle 59%Las Vegas 25% Mexico City 6% Other 11% MLBMontreal 25% Nashville 14% Portland 13% San Antonio 13% Charlotte 11% Las Vegas 11% Austin 6% Mexico City 4% Vancouver 3% NFLOther 48% Mexico City 39% London 14% www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24078578/where-nfl-nba-mlb-nhl-wnba-mls-nwsl-look-expansion
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Post by iceland2018 on Aug 3, 2018 0:55:15 GMT -6
I keep hearing fans say Ottawa would be better off in Quebec City. I'm wondering has anyone heard any concrete rumors that this might actually be a possibility (I haven't)? Melnyk seems to universally despised but I'm not sure if he's not interested in owning a team anymore. After living through the Norm Green debacle in 1993, nothing would suprise me. Green, of course, was a terrible owner, and facing a sexual harassment lawsuit, and unreasonable demands to the Twin Cities, moved the team to Dallas. Was it a smart move? No. The Wild do better than the Stars, despite playing in a larger metro area. Leaving Ottawa, with a metro area of 1.4 million people for Quebec would be incredible foolish, but I can see Melnyk doing it.
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Post by iceland2018 on Aug 3, 2018 1:01:02 GMT -6
It makes no sense to put a team in Mexico. It's a 3rd world country, full of political unrest. Are there 100,000 Mexicans that want to shell out a fortune for season tickets for the NFL? I doubt it. Even with 25 million people, I can't picture it ever working. I would be afraid of playing in Mexico, considering the players and their families run a high risk of crime and extortion. London is too far away, and likely would not sellout all the time. It's more or less a novelty. American football only seemed to work in Germany. Toronto would be the idea location, but that would not be possible in the Rogers Centre. If Toronto constructs an 80,000 seat stadium I can see it happening.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 3, 2018 4:08:10 GMT -6
It makes no sense to put a team in Mexico. It's a 3rd world country, full of political unrest. Are there 100,000 Mexicans that want to shell out a fortune for season tickets for the NFL? I doubt it. Even with 25 million people, I can't picture it ever working. I would be afraid of playing in Mexico, considering the players and their families run a high risk of crime and extortion. London is too far away, and likely would not sellout all the time. It's more or less a novelty. American football only seemed to work in Germany. Toronto would be the idea location, but that would not be possible in the Rogers Centre. If Toronto constructs an 80,000 seat stadium I can see it happening. The NFL isn't coming to Toronto. They blew it when they failed to support the 1 game a year Buffalo Bills game. The yearly game was cancelled with 4 years left on the deal due to poor attendance. www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/12/03/bills-reach-deal-to-terminate-toronto-series/19824993/Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder were in favor of moving the Bills to Toronto at one point and saw Buffalo as a thing of the past since it's a dying rust belt and the Bills are the NFL's least valuable franchise. They were memorized by Toronto's demographics/size. Toronto's chance of a team was the Bills. They blew it! London now has 4 games a year and sells them out. I think they could do 8. The travel is the thing that will probably kill it. What will probably happen is the Jacksonville Jaguars will probably go from 1 game a year there to 2 or 3 long term since Jacksonville is such a bad market. Mexico City is relatively safe in spite Mexico's overall violence and turmoil. There's quite a few rich people there too! NFL won't come though because the stadium is from the 70's and a new one won't be funded since stadiums are now at least a billion and a half dollars. If Mexico City gets anything it will be the NBA. There is a modern arena that sold out 2 regular season games last year. The NBA is putting a league owned G-league team(minor league) there as a test drive. www.nytimes.com/2017/12/07/sports/nba-g-league-mexico-city.htmlThe thinking is an NBA team in Mexico would supercharge Hispanic interest in the NBA like what the Raptors did in Canada. www.nytimes.com/2017/12/15/sports/nba-mexico-city.htmlThe NBA is by far the most global sport and this would expand on it. One day with faster travel the NBA will have a China division and a European division and truly be global.
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