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Post by bigcanadiano on Jun 23, 2012 20:59:05 GMT -6
When I look at the list, I can't believe we passed on these guys in this order:
1 Grigorenko 2 Forsberg 3 Teravainen 4 Trouba 5 Faksa
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Post by bigcanadiano on Jun 23, 2012 21:02:06 GMT -6
I never thought Grigorenko would have been available, I thought Forsberg there was no chance at. If those two were drafted, I wouldn't be quite so cynical.
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Post by Guardian on Jun 23, 2012 21:18:14 GMT -6
Other teams passed on these guys as well.
Last season, when Bogosian & Byfuglien were out due to injury, our opponents large forwards were able to take advantage of our small defensemen.
Trouba has been compared to Adam Foote & Chris Pronger, defensemen who can physically handle large forwards.
Yes, we need to upgrade oout forwards and well have that opportunity in the 2013 draft which is loaded with highly skilled forwards like Nathan MacKinnon.
I will be patient.
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Post by bigcanadiano on Jun 23, 2012 21:23:24 GMT -6
I'm trying to be just as objective. I hardly think badly of Trouba, I just think passing on Forsberg was a pretty steep move, nevermind Grigorenko. Believe me I'm just playing devil's advocate, but just as patient as the next guy.
edit: I do think it's objective and not irrelevant so much. It's for curiosity. To be fair I agree picking Trouba ahead of Teravainen, Faksa.
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Post by Grumpz on Jun 23, 2012 21:39:59 GMT -6
I'm trying to be just as objective. I hardly think badly of Trouba, I just think passing on Forsberg was a pretty steep move, nevermind Grigorenko. Believe me I'm just playing devil's advocate, but just as patient as the next guy. edit: I do think it's objective and not irrelevant so much. It's for curiosity. To be fair I agree picking Trouba ahead of Teravainen, Faksa. If we were looking for wingers, and our team wasn't 14 in scoring, but 26 in goals against, I'd agree, however we know different, don't we? Also, depending on where you looked, Trouba was ranked as high as 5th, and that's not just with the Jets.
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Post by rainmanrh on Jun 24, 2012 8:31:10 GMT -6
When I look at the stats and I see we were 12th in goals for and 26th in goals against, it would make you think we are weak at defense. But I think if we had stronger forwards the puck wouldn't be in our end as much. I still think we should have drafted a forward.
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Post by bigcanadiano on Jun 24, 2012 9:52:56 GMT -6
I can't believe only 1 vote for grigorenko and 14 in favor of Trouba. Something smells rotten. I mean as fans we should be way more objective then this.
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Post by JayR on Jun 24, 2012 9:55:32 GMT -6
I can't believe only 1 vote for grigorenko and 14 in favor of Trouba. Something smells rotten. I mean as fans we should be way more objective then this. Grig has some character issues...so hes not a TN kind of guy. Trouba looks like a great pick for shoring up the D with a physical presence. Just chill out and see how things go!
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Post by bigcanadiano on Jun 24, 2012 10:06:59 GMT -6
Yeah, but I just don't want to be seen as a guy who's hating on anyone in particular. I am really just curious.
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Post by jimsabo21 on Jun 24, 2012 10:17:36 GMT -6
I can't believe only 1 vote for grigorenko and 14 in favor of Trouba. Something smells rotten. I mean as fans we should be way more objective then this. Grig has some character issues...so hes not a TN kind of guy. Trouba looks like a great pick for shoring up the D with a physical presence. Just chill out and see how things go! I don't really buy into this "character issues" and "True North holier than thou" stuff. I mean, this is a team that has Byfuglien (apperently not the hardest worker) and Kane (somewhat on the selfish side). Although those two were from the ATL regime, TN still has them in their long term plans. Do we think the Sabres are looking for "bad character" guys? Are the Blackhawks (advised by the Scotty and Stan Bowman) stupid for taking a small skilled forward (Terravainen)? For the record, I am OK with Trouba. I think he will be a good NHL player. I'm a little more concerned about our (seemingly) bias to size over skill over the last two years. Truthfully, I don't know which is the better approach - but I know that I prefer watching skilled players than dump and chase hockey. Historically, I would say skilled teams have won more cups than big intimidating teams. Going back to the Oilers of the 80s, Penguins of the 90s, and of course Red Wings of the 2000s. Recently, teams like the Bruins and Kings have won with less skill, and more size (although they still have Kopitar, Doughty). All this to say - I just don't know which philosophy produces more wins, but I do know that selfishly as a fan, I prefered the Selanne, Zhamnov, Little, Wheeler, Burmistrov type game compared to the Tkachuk, Ladd, GST, type of hockey. To each their own I guess.
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Post by cheswick on Jun 24, 2012 10:49:28 GMT -6
I'm no scout so don't try to be one. Not sure why you think Grigorenko is so great when Mackenzie based on his talking of various scouts ranked him at 12.
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Post by grumpy on Jun 24, 2012 10:50:39 GMT -6
I don't really buy into this "character issues" and "True North holier than thou" stuff. I mean, this is a team that has Byfuglien (apperently not the hardest worker) and Kane (somewhat on the selfish side). Although those two were from the ATL regime, TN still has them in their long term plans. Kind of a specious argument Jim. The current Jets did not pick those players. If it can be argued these are players with character issues it has nothing to do with who is drafted today by the current regime. The current regime may not believe those players are a (potential) problem. Rather, if TNSE has determined some players they are picking are head-cases they may decide they are not worth risking a high draft choice on.
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Post by bigcanadiano on Jun 24, 2012 11:25:02 GMT -6
I'm no scout so don't try to be one. Not sure why you think Grigorenko is so great when Mackenzie based on his talking of various scouts ranked him at 12. If I were to take a chance on a player of Grigorenko's capability, my rationale is the same, he has size and skill, would I have taken him ahead of a defenseman. I know I would. That's all I'm going with it. Not complicated, but reasonable I think. I believe addressing the needs of our size up front coupled with skill, Grigorenko has both. The Jets needed this guy. So IMO, why am I listening to where a player is ranked. I'm going out on a limb here, but I am really disappointed.
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Post by bigcanadiano on Jun 24, 2012 11:30:02 GMT -6
Grig has some character issues...so hes not a TN kind of guy. Trouba looks like a great pick for shoring up the D with a physical presence. Just chill out and see how things go! I don't really buy into this "character issues" and "True North holier than thou" stuff. I mean, this is a team that has Byfuglien (apperently not the hardest worker) and Kane (somewhat on the selfish side). Although those two were from the ATL regime, TN still has them in their long term plans. Do we think the Sabres are looking for "bad character" guys? Are the Blackhawks (advised by the Scotty and Stan Bowman) stupid for taking a small skilled forward (Terravainen)? For the record, I am OK with Trouba. I think he will be a good NHL player. I'm a little more concerned about our (seemingly) bias to size over skill over the last two years. Truthfully, I don't know which is the better approach - but I know that I prefer watching skilled players than dump and chase hockey. Historically, I would say skilled teams have won more cups than big intimidating teams. Going back to the Oilers of the 80s, Penguins of the 90s, and of course Red Wings of the 2000s. Recently, teams like the Bruins and Kings have won with less skill, and more size (although they still have Kopitar, Doughty). All this to say - I just don't know which philosophy produces more wins, but I do know that selfishly as a fan, I prefered the Selanne, Zhamnov, Little, Wheeler, Burmistrov type game compared to the Tkachuk, Ladd, GST, type of hockey. To each their own I guess. A decent argument, to be fair to Chevy, there's a good deal of strength behind your thoughtful approach to what is most important, the betterment of the team. I maintain the fact Chevy dropped the ball on this pick, however, not in spite of Trouba. I was on pins and needles waiting for Chevy to articulate the words Grigorenko, I had such a good feeling about us picking him. If Grigorenko will prove us wrong. I have no problem with that.
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Post by The Unknown Poster on Jun 24, 2012 11:38:15 GMT -6
You lose the argument with me because of how much you prefer Grigorenko. I would not have taken him. If I wanted a skilled forward at 9, I would not have taken him because there were other, better options.
I lost my mind when they let Forsberg go but in retrospect, they are building a long term vision here. And this is the right way to go.
Between Trouba and Sutter, we had a very good draft (plus Monster if we can sign him). The intent seems to be to get better defensively, shore up goaltending, add size and grit and character.
As far as offense goes, our players will get better too. Kane, Wheeler, Burmi are all players who should get better. Bogo could too. Little and Ladd can too. Thats where we can get more goals.
And you need to stock the shelves before you can make the big trades like the one for Staal which could add the final couple of pieces for a championship run.
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