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Post by mikecubs on Aug 5, 2014 20:40:14 GMT -6
^^^Bon Jovi better pick a different city if he wants NFL in the future. If Buffalo stays Toronto is a no-go because Buffalo needs that area to survive.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Aug 5, 2014 21:01:48 GMT -6
^^^Bon Jovi better pick a different city if he wants NFL in the future. If Buffalo stays Toronto is a no-go because Buffalo needs that area to survive. toronto is not desired. and without bon jovi, Rogers is not desired by the nfl. this whole thing comes from jovi hanging out with owners. If they are saying back the f out wait a couple years and when we weasel the raiders away from the davis family you will be the front face for an AEG backed group. Pegula literally struck oil (gas) and now just wnats to play with toys
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 5, 2014 22:23:21 GMT -6
I think at some point they will hook Bon Jovi up with another group and they will buy another team(it may not be LA or a team that moves). Jerry Jones seems to love Bon Jovi and wants him in the club.
Toronto had their chance and blew it. If they would have supported the Bills series and showed they had an interest in NFL the league would have found a way to move the Bills to Toronto. Let's be honest. Buffalo isn't all that great. The Bills are one of the weakest teams in the NFL. Forbes had them as the 3rd least valuable team behind the Raiders and Jaguars.
Buffalo and Rochester combined are only about 2.2M people and not growing. Buffalo and Rochester have only 2 fortune 1000 companies a piece and I don't think you can count Rochester as part of Buffalo. Yes they help but it's too far away.
Toronto was 8.7M people as of 2011. It's growing 1.622 percent a year. If it keeps that growth rate it will be 10.1M people in 2020, 11.89M people in 2030 and 12.88M people in 2035. It's the financial capital of Canada. All the fans had to do was show some proof they liked football. They failed to support the CFL because it was beneath them. The argument was CFL is minor league and we have the major leagues in the other 3 major sports. OK fine. Then the NFL comes with the Bills. It's no secrete Buffalo has it's warts. All they had to do was show up. They didn't. The excuse was it's not our team yet. Only if you give us the team we will support it. So the argument is we don't have to support CFL or NFL because we are big, we are THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE. Just trust us, give us the team (p)ucking team full time we will support it. We don't have to prove anything.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Aug 6, 2014 4:53:38 GMT -6
No you count rochester, its not too far away, its where a solid porion of corporate sales and season ticket holders come from. Same with Hamilton. and Southern ontario. When you combine all 3, the bills market gets closer to 3million. Remember American TV dollars are more important than canadian tv dollars. The nfl makes its money off of national tv deals 1st, meaning smaller markets arent as big a deal. History and tv viewership + Out of market packages are a big deal however. People in rochester only root for the buffalo bills nothing else. I have alot of friends there..they are huge in rochester
The bills are weak due to performance but they are an iconic club
Tornoto hasnt proven they would support the nfl it would be an absolute embarrassment if there were Canadian blackouts with a toronto club.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Aug 6, 2014 13:22:23 GMT -6
reports now are coming in that Golisano is going to bid. Another local owner that can match Toronto...i wouldnt be surprised if toronto gives up.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 6, 2014 22:18:14 GMT -6
No you count rochester, its not too far away, its where a solid porion of corporate sales and season ticket holders come from. Same with Hamilton. and Southern ontario. When you combine all 3, the bills market gets closer to 3million. Remember American TV dollars are more important than canadian tv dollars. The nfl makes its money off of national tv deals 1st, meaning smaller markets arent as big a deal. History and tv viewership + Out of market packages are a big deal however. People in rochester only root for the buffalo bills nothing else. I have alot of friends there..they are huge in rochester The bills are weak due to performance but they are an iconic club Tornoto hasnt proven they would support the nfl it would be an absolute embarrassment if there were Canadian blackouts with a toronto club. I do agree EVERYONE in Rochester is a bills fan. I don't argue that. But it's 73.67 miles away. You obviously have to count it but I don't think you can count it 100% completely. That's a far drive especially in winter. I know around 20% I think of Bills fans come from Rochester so I'm not discounting it. As far as Hamilton/S. Ontario yes they do get help but I don't think you can count that completely and add the total number of population into Buffalo's favor. S. Ontario does have 2 CFL teams and they aren't the greatest NFL fans but yes the Bills do get a decent amount of help from there. I just think the 3M number is too high. If you use that number that's saying Buffalo is a bigger market than Charlotte, Indianapolis, Kansas City. There's no way you can say that. Look at the franchise values. Look at how Charlotte could get MLB in 20 years and look at how KC is at least weakly rumored to be getting a 3rd team some day. I know you can't use the 1.2M and discount Canada/Rochester for Buffalo but you can't use 3M either. I'm not sure what to use. It's kind of like Milwaukee/Madison. Madison is too far to be counted completely but you can't discount it. I agree the Bills performance has sucked, Ralph Wilson in his old age hasn't been a great owner, and the stadium is outdated and has about 8,000 too many seats. But keep in mind Bills team president Russ Brandon's comments about how a new stadium with fancy stuff might not be needed because the companies etc... just aren't there to buy that type of stuff. Buffalo's not horrible but it's at the bottom level of what is acceptable for an NFL market. Great history and all. Neil Demause overplays the national TV deal too much. Yes it's important but still local revenues DO matter. Compare the price the Bills will get or the Jags/Raiders would get to if the Patriots, Giants, Cowboys or Red Skins were for sale. As far as the national TV deal maybe an exception could have been made if Toronto was beating down the door for a team. National TV deal is important but would losing one of the smallest markets be so bad for the networks? The NFL could have just charged a hair less and made up for that with Canadian TV $$$. They could have gotten a big tv deal from Toronto if the interest was there. Of course this is moot. Toronto totally FAILED and I hope the Bills stay. Just saying IF Toronto HYPOTHETICALLY was beating down the door for NFL those 8.7M and wealth would be awfully tempting vs. a 1.2M dying rustbelt with another 1M dying rustbelt 73.67 miles from that.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Aug 7, 2014 6:35:17 GMT -6
Buffalo bills are really the western NY bills, They have a far reach and football because its a once a week game Extends its reach further than the other 3.
Western NY is very important to politics in New york. ITs essentially where elections are won, thats why the bills will never leave. And i do think big markets are important...in the United States not in canada and not in london as far as the nfl is concerned. A team in london wont help tv money over there if anything having multiple teams tour the area will help more than 8 games a year of a really bad team, and toronto...i dont think the nfl cares. I think they can get all of canada on tv deals for just playing games...live programming. Rogers and TSN will pay for the nfl just to have live programming.
So theres only one market that needs to be branded in north america, Its los angeles. The rest is gravy. The NFL will hint at expansion in london because they need a relocation threat post Los Angeles return.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Aug 7, 2014 8:09:35 GMT -6
another pro buffalo owner in the mix...backed by Jim Kelly apparently.
Jeffrey Gundlach who is an LA bond investor...HOWEVER. born and raised in East Amherst Ny. So he is a local owner even though he made money in LA
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Post by Bruinsfan on Aug 7, 2014 19:48:46 GMT -6
www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2014/08/bills_sale_tom_golisano_submit.html#incart_riverTom Golisano will bid for the bills So far you have Trump= will definitely keep team in buffalo PEgula= will definitely keep the team in buffalo and pay a butload Golisano=- will definitely keep the team in buffalo Gundlach= will definitely keep the team in buffalo Bon jovi and toronto= I pinky swear we will think about it for a few minuets. hmmmmm i wonder what a trustee mandated to have strong assurance of remaining in buffalo will pick
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2014 21:19:16 GMT -6
Buffalo bills are really the western NY bills, They have a far reach and football because its a once a week game Extends its reach further than the other 3. Western NY is very important to politics in New york. ITs essentially where elections are won, thats why the bills will never leave. And i do think big markets are important...in the United States not in canada and not in london as far as the nfl is concerned. A team in london wont help tv money over there if anything having multiple teams tour the area will help more than 8 games a year of a really bad team, and toronto...i dont think the nfl cares. I think they can get all of canada on tv deals for just playing games...live programming. Rogers and TSN will pay for the nfl just to have live programming. So theres only one market that needs to be branded in north america, Its los angeles. The rest is gravy. The NFL will hint at expansion in london because they need a relocation threat post Los Angeles return. I agree football can extend further. But still. The Bills are one of the weakest NFL teams. Question for you. Let's say Pegula or any other local buyer gets the Bills and gets a new downtown stadium with a proper capacity of around 65,000. How many markets is Buffalo better than other than Oakland/Jacksonville? Maybe St. Louis San Diego if they leave them in those crap stadiums but that's about it. Buffalo is viable but it's just not a world beater. That's the thing about London. It will probably be a really bad team. I don't think it would work but the owners may be greedy enough to look at that 15M and be crazy enough to try it. As far as Toronto it's possible the NFL could get a higher TV deal in Canada IF Toronto would have shown interest in the Bills. Ya NFL gets $$$ from Canada but they'd get more if they had a popular Canadian team. US Networks wouldn't have been please to lose any US market but Buffalo is small potatoes. If Toronto was beating down the door for NFL Rogers would pay more for TV rights. But unfortunately for Toronto they are not so it would be stupid to go to Toronto just because it's big. But IF Toronto would have worked there is no question NFL would be better with a team in Toronto rather than Buffalo. You know a few months ago there was an article when ralph Wilson died about Jerry Jones opinions on what to do with the Bills. He argued that maybe you should move the Bills to Toronto. He was split on what to do and saw both sides of it. His argument was Buffalo will always be a small market with no upside. Yes they don't embarrass themselves but they aren't so great. His agreement was with Toronto you could grow the game and with those demographics IF the game caught on you can make more money than a place like Buffalo. But he did concede there was a lot HIGHER risk doing this because there really wasn't any evidence Toronto could support a team. With Toronto's poor showing with the Bills NFL won't take the risk(and shouldn't). But my point is that IF Toronto cared(they don't) NFL would be better off in Toronto. Look at the money, corporate support, upside, growth rates etc.....
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Post by Bruinsfan on Aug 7, 2014 21:19:32 GMT -6
"In inviting the Toronto group to resubmit, the trust and its transaction team asked the trio to provide greater assurances that it plans to keep the Bills long-term in the Buffalo area, a source said. Whatever the group submitted in Tuesday’s do-over did not prove satisfactory. The group was asked to “clarify statements,” a source said. The trust and its transaction team have not yet decided the group’s fate. Earlier in the day, Tim Graham of the Buffalo News and John Wawrow of Associated Press both reported that the Toronto group has a meeting scheduled next week with the seller. That might well wind up being the case." blogs.canoe.ca/krykslants/nfl/toronto-group-asked-yet-again-to-clarify-non-relocation-intentions-on-wild-day-in-bills-sale-developments/So they were told to strengthen their intentions...and now morgan stanley has to ask again...essentially saying dont give me legal jargon..Tell us straight up YOU ONLY HAVE PLANS TO KEEP THE TEAM IN BUFFALO...they cant say that because they would be misrepresenting the fact they researched stadium cites outside of the USA (I have a JD and its common in legal circles to call it legalize..and lawyers hate it JUST AS MUCH as you do, its annoying speak clearly we our time is precious...rule of thumb is this when you are relying on legalize in your argument..you dont have much to say..if you could say it directly you WOULD).
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2014 21:25:01 GMT -6
^^^ They should tell the Toronto group to get lost. Gosling, the Kelly group and Trump should be used to get Pegula to bid higher. The Toronto group is a bunch of lying scum.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2014 21:33:22 GMT -6
Here is Jerry Jones on Buffalo Jerry Jones' signals mixed on Bills' futureThe wish of Buffalo Bills fans is clear: they want their team to stay in Western New York. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell -- a native of nearby Jamestown, New York -- could be an ally in that fight, as could a new owner who wants to keep the Bills in the region. But other NFL owners? That could be a different story. According to the Buffalo News' Tim Graham, who is at the NFL's May owners meetings in Atlanta, Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones declined to comment directly on the Bills' future. "Out of respect for Ralph Wilson, out of respect for everything he's meant for the NFL -- a Hall of Famer, but in my mind one of the founders of the NFL -- I don't want to get ahead of things at all in commenting about the future of the Bills," Jones told the Buffalo News. Jones then offered a broader statement that could be interpreted several different ways.
"We always ought to be looking for ways to improve not only the growing of the pie, but also growing the fan base," he said. "And to the extent that you can involve more fans in any team location is something to be considered."
Involve more fans? Like, in Toronto?
"We certainly want to create every opportunity we can to involve more fans. At the end of the day, it's my town against your town, Cowboys against whoever we're playing," Jones told the Buffalo News. "To the end that we can create more rivalries and involve larger viewing audiences, populations, that's something that you have to look at when you get a chance to, and that's the debate between Buffalo and Toronto." The Bills tried to grow their fan base in 2008 when they started playing a regular season game in Toronto. Attendance and interest in the game dwindled and the Bills will not play north of the border this season. How else, then, would the Bills expand their fan base in their region? Winning is the most obvious way, and if the Bills can return to the playoffs this season it should take pressure off the team's current administration when a new owner takes over. But the Bills still need to find a way to sell more tickets. Jones' comments Monday are a reminder that he and other NFL owners are always looking to increase the league's profits and having a team in Buffalo that had one game blacked out last season and "manufactured sell-outs in the other four or five," as CEO Russ Brandon put it, isn't in the collective business interest of those owners. Having a newer, smaller stadium could help stem the Bills' troublesome blackouts. Goodell said twice this month the Bills need to build a new stadium to remain viable in the region, and Jones echoed that belief to Graham on Monday. "I know firsthand how impactful a new stadium can be," Jones told the Buffalo News. "A state-of-the-art stadium, one that can and tries to create as many amenities and fan experiences as you can with technology in 2014 as opposed to when some of these other stadiums were built. Every team needs to look at how they can continually be as fan-friendly as they can. I can tell you first-hand a new stadium is a step in the right direction." The Cowboys opened AT&T Stadium in 2009. It can seat over 100,000, has over 300 luxury suites, and has one of the world's largest video screens. It hosted the Super Bowl in 2011 and the men's basketball Final Four this spring. When the Cowboys play, expect anyone from former presidents to famous country artists to be in Jones' private box. Cowboys season-ticket holders must first purchase personal seat licenses, which start around $10,000, just to have the right to buy tickets. And don't forget parking -- that's another $75 per game, if bought from the team. Personal seat licenses -- which are becoming standard practice in new NFL stadiums like those built in New York, Minnesota, and San Francisco -- aren't an option in Buffalo.
"We can't afford seat licenses and luxury suites," Erie County executive Mark Poloncarz said in February. That’s the context for Jones’ comments. The modern NFL is a cash cow and some owners may feel that the Buffalo market — home to one of the NFL’s oldest stadiums and one of the league’s least expensive tickets — is holding the league back. Something will have to give. If Jones has reservations about keeping the Bills in Buffalo, he could have a say in their sale process, as owners will have to approve a new owner and could also give the nod to a possible relocation. Jones’ opinion may not please many in Western New York but it can’t be discounted. He is a keen businessman and an influential voice among NFL owners. But, as Jones said, let’s not “get ahead of things.” He spoke Monday in generalities that suggest a new stadium and increased ticket sales could alleviate any concerns about the Bills’ future, so to pin Jones as “anti-Buffalo” would be premature and likely inaccurate. espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/9827/jerry-jones-signals-mixed-on-bills-future
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 7, 2014 21:37:47 GMT -6
Toronto's horrifying "performance" in that Bills series will be what saves the Bills. If they would have sold those games out, shown demand, shown they were awesome fans the big city argument would have won.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Aug 7, 2014 21:44:32 GMT -6
Toronto's horrifying "performance" in that Bills series will be what saves the Bills. If they would have sold those games out, shown demand, shown they were awesome fans the big city argument would have won. No. Trust law will save the bills. and a lot of rich guys living in western ny. those jones statements are old enough to not consider. He is really chummy with bon jovi...this is before the Crap hit the fan. Trust law wins. They would never violate the trusts decision not in a million years. if the team sells for a billion they wont turn anyone away.
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