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Post by Lions67 on Apr 26, 2015 10:08:44 GMT -6
to be fair to muddy, he is providing facts to his argument on the popularity of the game here. he has proven with numbers that soccer is indeed more popular in Canada than it is in the USA. and this has happened without a legitimate league of our own. you cannot come back with well,we watch it online, or have other sports to watch. all that does is prove the point that americans dont really care for the game.
now!, with that said, it really doesnt matter if you guys watch on tv. forthe most part,you fill those stands, portland and Seattle, Colombus and Philly all are great markets for the MLS. but sois Vancouver and Montreal. This is NOT the NASL. MLS is here to stay, the league is growing and so is its fans. will it ever catch the NHL, probably not, but that is besides the point anyway. The Montreal Impact, by the way, are in the CONCACAF CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL. Its tied 1-1 with the second leg going back to Montreal. Their opponent? America of Mexico. a huge feat for MLS AND CANADIAN SOCCER. Bruins, if you want to debate him, keep the US V Canada crap out of it. Canada made the World Cup in 1986, we were much better than the US team then too. Your successes lay in the fact that you have a domestic league, and a good one too. it has grown, it has thrived. we had the CSL and it sucked and died. soccer IS THRIVING IN North America.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Apr 26, 2015 11:34:27 GMT -6
A single viewership doesnt prove your point. Soccer is bigger in the US than canada in participation, and uite frankly in money, dedication and performance. "Canada ranks ninth in the world when it comes to registered athletes in soccer. According to a 2006 FIFA census, one in 39 Canadians is enrolled in the sport at some level. By comparison, one in 40 Italians plays. In the United States, it’s one in 72. Germany ranked the highest with one soccer athlete for every 14 people."source: www.macleans.ca/society/the-good-ol-soccer-game/------ The fact is 1 in 39 Canadians participate in organized soccer. Only 1 in 72 do so in the USA. How does one register as an athlete? Iv always wondered that. Do latin american immigrants playing pickup games in the US count? Because we have alot of those just go to a park on a sunday. Only 1 in 72 according to a bs metric. The Fact is The United States is more organized has a better soccer culture and quite frankly will continue to perform better than your 1 in 39. the US is a superior soccer nation to canada.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Apr 26, 2015 11:42:00 GMT -6
to be fair to muddy, he is providing facts to his argument on the popularity of the game here. he has proven with numbers that soccer is indeed more popular in Canada than it is in the USA. and this has happened without a legitimate league of our own. you cannot come back with well,we watch it online, or have other sports to watch. all that does is prove the point that americans dont really care for the game. now!, with that said, it really doesnt matter if you guys watch on tv. forthe most part,you fill those stands, portland and Seattle, Colombus and Philly all are great markets for the MLS. but sois Vancouver and Montreal. This is NOT the NASL. MLS is here to stay, the league is growing and so is its fans. will it ever catch the NHL, probably not, but that is besides the point anyway. The Montreal Impact, by the way, are in the CONCACAF CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL. Its tied 1-1 with the second leg going back to Montreal. Their opponent? America of Mexico. a huge feat for MLS AND CANADIAN SOCCER. Bruins, if you want to debate him, keep the US V Canada crap out of it. Canada made the World Cup in 1986, we were much better than the US team then too. Your successes lay in the fact that you have a domestic league, and a good one too. it has grown, it has thrived. we had the CSL and it sucked and died. soccer IS THRIVING IN North America. I didnt bring that crap up, im not the one that came in spouting arguments from the 1970s. And im pumped for Impact de Montreal. that is Awesome for MLS and Ill agree its great for canadian soccer. Its a bigger deal for MLS because we should be making these finals regularly. especially considering that Impact are actually a pretty crappy MLS side. our better sides should absolutely be making it through if they could. Bringing up canada in 86 is actually a good point. Because thats the year of arguments that Muddy tried to lead with, essentially stating, well it was popular in the 70s and it never took off, the NASL was bush league. It had stupid rules, Fifa hated it, and it ultimately hurt American Soccer. Brining up NASL and Pele is a false equivilence to today where our national team now has beat mexico many times, wins the gold cup, makes it to the knockout rounds of the world cup, oh and will be Hosting Copa America BTW Copa America 16 if successful will be gigantic for north american soccer. I would love to have an every 4 year Americas tournament with North and South America in one tournament. IMO if you had the NHL regular season going on at the same time as the world cup final, the numbers would be lower than they were. The fact is in Canada its Hockey, and everything else.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Apr 26, 2015 11:46:02 GMT -6
Can this thread get back on topic, I wouldnt mind it if the mods cleansed it away from the soccer talk. That wasnt supposed to happen.
This is about the NHL essentially covering up for Gary's mistakes.
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Post by Lions67 on Apr 26, 2015 12:02:28 GMT -6
Canada, Gold Cup Champions in 2000. crap ever since. Coppa America would be great for all of us. the only way to get better is to to play these type of tournaments.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Apr 26, 2015 12:17:11 GMT -6
IF the asking price for vegas is $500, what is the NHL expecting out of quebec?
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Post by Lions67 on Apr 26, 2015 13:22:10 GMT -6
IF the asking price for vegas is $500, what is the NHL expecting out of quebec? relo fee. 500 mil is an expansion fee. so expect much less.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Apr 26, 2015 13:57:48 GMT -6
IF the asking price for vegas is $500, what is the NHL expecting out of quebec? relo fee. 500 mil is an expansion fee. so expect much less. I think in their mind they would rather lose a combined 150 million in Florida Carolina and Phoenix and take in close to a billion in expansion fees.
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quackbeth
Captain "C"
By the pricking of my thumbs Something hockey this way comes!
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Post by quackbeth on Apr 26, 2015 23:06:01 GMT -6
OK, so, ignoring all that about which is more popular in the US, hockey or soccer (since 1. There are lots of different ways to gauge soccer's growth, and they'll give you different results, and more importantly, 2. I don't give a damn as THIS IS A *HOCKEY* BOARD)...
17-15 is absurd, I think we all agree on that. (Gary Bettman's also absurd...and I think we all agree on that, too.)
Anyway, it's no secret that Vegas, Seattle, and Quebec are the three cities "next in line" should the NHL expand, relocate, or both. I say both...
I say we'll see 32 teams, two via expansion (Vegas seems to be progressing there) and then the third by relocation, whatever sorry carcass of a team that proves to be.
The Coyotes WILL MOVE. They will. Maybe not next year or the year after that, but there's no way that team lives to see a 30th anniversary, and probably not a 25th. They've skirted death quite a few times now, and THEY WILL GO.
Their going to Vegas at this point would honestly be the best of the bad situations perpetually swirling around the team. Las Vegas is next door to Arizona, so in theory you could still keep Arizona as a TV market for that team (for all the good that'll do) and Bettman gets to stand up and be proud of "saving hockey in the desert"...well, *A* desert, anyway. Vegas wants a team, they're gonna get a team, might as well be Arizona.
Expansion brings the Seattle Whatevers into existence and reboots the Quebec Nordiques, and boom, 16-16 conferences, literally with as little "movement" as possible, since you're not schlepping the Panthers or Hurricanes to Seattle and thus moving a team thousands of miles AND creating a conference imbalance, since teams in Seattle and Quebec are likely to happen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 0:13:23 GMT -6
OK, so, ignoring all that about which is more popular in the US, hockey or soccer (since 1. There are lots of different ways to gauge soccer's growth, and they'll give you different results, and more importantly, 2. I don't give a damn as THIS IS A *HOCKEY* BOARD)... 17-15 is absurd, I think we all agree on that. (Gary Bettman's also absurd...and I think we all agree on that, too.) Anyway, it's no secret that Vegas, Seattle, and Quebec are the three cities "next in line" should the NHL expand, relocate, or both. I say both... I say we'll see 32 teams, two via expansion (Vegas seems to be progressing there) and then the third by relocation, whatever sorry carcass of a team that proves to be. The Coyotes WILL MOVE. They will. Maybe not next year or the year after that, but there's no way that team lives to see a 30th anniversary, and probably not a 25th. They've skirted death quite a few times now, and THEY WILL GO. Their going to Vegas at this point would honestly be the best of the bad situations perpetually swirling around the team. Las Vegas is next door to Arizona, so in theory you could still keep Arizona as a TV market for that team (for all the good that'll do) and Bettman gets to stand up and be proud of "saving hockey in the desert"...well, *A* desert, anyway. Vegas wants a team, they're gonna get a team, might as well be Arizona. Expansion brings the Seattle Whatevers into existence and reboots the Quebec Nordiques, and boom, 16-16 conferences, literally with as little "movement" as possible, since you're not schlepping the Panthers or Hurricanes to Seattle and thus moving a team thousands of miles AND creating a conference imbalance, since teams in Seattle and Quebec are likely to happen. I would not mind having 32 teams to balance the Conferences. If you really look at the realignment, it would make sense, as there will be 8 teams per Division. If Quebec City gets a team, they will probably move Columbus to the West, simply because Detroit has too much pull, and had been requesting to be in the East for years. I think the NHL would prefer teams in Seattle and Las Vegas, but I think Quebec will somehow gt a team. It's too attractive a market to pass up on, with their new arena, and passionate fan base.
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quackbeth
Captain "C"
By the pricking of my thumbs Something hockey this way comes!
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Post by quackbeth on Apr 27, 2015 20:46:13 GMT -6
I agree, I think all three will get teams. Quebec's building an arena and is clearly dedicated, and now the NHL has seen 1. How well the revival's gone in Winnipeg and 2. How badly things are in some of their southern markets... SOMEONE will relocate. I think we can all agree on that. I cannot fathom the Coyotes, Panthers, Lightning and Hurricanes ALL existing in 10 years. One of them will bite the dust, and whoever's loss that is, it'll be Quebec's gain, while Seattle and Vegas enter into the league via expansion. It'd make a potential Pacific Division interesting. Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose, Seattle, Vancouver, those would all be givens...Calgary, Edmonton, and Vegas would then be the idea, but if the Coyotes are still alive, then you'd have a problem. There's no way you can put Calgary and Edmonton in separate divisions, but ANA/LA/SJ/SEA/VAN makes five, Vegas and the Coyotes would make seven of eight slots...then what? The most logical move then would be to put the Avalanche in the Pacific division and group Calgary and Edmonton in whatever Central Division forms, but then you're STILL separating Vancouver from Calgary and Edmonton... So basically, as always, we just need the Coyotes to just die already. Ideally, we'd have: WESTERN CONFERENCE Pacific: Anaheim Los Angeles San Jose Seattle Las Vegas Vancouver Calgary Edmonton Central: Winnipeg Minnesota Colorado Dallas St. Louis Chicago Nashville Columbus EASTERN CONFERENCE: Atlantic Division: Boston Detroit Florida Tampa Ottawa Montreal Quebec (by way of the Coyotes moving, in this example) Toronto Metropolitan: Buffalo (moving here to join the New York State teams and to allow Quebec to be in the same division as Montreal) NY Rangers NY Islanders New Jersey Carolina Washington Penguins Philadelphia
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Post by mikecubs on Apr 27, 2015 22:22:30 GMT -6
The Coyotes aren't moving. Sammy Chivara will always prop them up in the short term. Very long term they will move downtown someday in a shared arena with the Suns.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2015 23:11:31 GMT -6
The Coyotes aren't moving. Sammy Chivara will always prop them up in the short term. Very long term they will move downtown someday in a shared arena with the Suns. One team will move eventually I'm sure. I hope it is Florida or Carolina. If the NHL does expand to 32 teams, I heard a rumor that they are going to increase the number of teams who make the playoffs. Maybe 20 or even 24, having some teams get byes in a new round, while some clubs will have to play best-of-3 series. It actually makes sense. Just like the NFL, have 4 Wildcard teams in each Conference, and have the #7-10 seeded teams play each other.
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Post by mikecubs on Apr 28, 2015 0:51:02 GMT -6
I think for a change Bettman is right and Atlanta was a 1 off. There's more TV money now than in the past plus in sports a team that is the only tenant will never leave a modern facility. Atlanta was a perfect storm. It was right before the big Canadian TV deal, there was another tenant at the arena and they had god awful ownership that didn't want the team. Florida is making too much from concerts, the Coyotes have Sammy Chivara and I don't think Carolina is a bad enough market to move. Their attendance/leaked gate data history isn't as bad as Glendale and Florida. Plus Raleigh area is one of the fastest growing areas in either the states or Canada.
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Post by Bruinsfan on Apr 28, 2015 4:36:20 GMT -6
I think for a change Bettman is right and Atlanta was a 1 off. There's more TV money now than in the past plus in sports a team that is the only tenant will never leave a modern facility. Atlanta was a perfect storm. It was right before the big Canadian TV deal, there was another tenant at the arena and they had god awful ownership that didn't want the team. Florida is making too much from concerts, the Coyotes have Sammy Chivara and I don't think Carolina is a bad enough market to move. Their attendance/leaked gate data history isn't as bad as Glendale and Florida. Plus Raleigh area is one of the fastest growing areas in either the states or Canada. there is more tv money....but not enough because of his incompetence.
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