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Post by Ric O. on Jun 7, 2016 21:03:02 GMT -6
I think May 7, 1997 section regarding the identity and history of the Whalers was really interesting. Too bad Jets/Coyotes weren't handled the same way.
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Post by Tim on Jun 8, 2016 5:05:30 GMT -6
Las Vegas in, Quebec screwed, No relocation, No expansion. Bettman and the idiots on the executive committee deserve to have Carolina and Arizona implode and need relocation and Quebec says....FU. No rational thinking what so ever, for anyone that doesn't have empathy for Quebec, think about what would have happened if Las Vegas would have been ready 5 years ago. We'd be screwed for eternity just as Quebec is. As long as you have total A**holes like Bettman, Daly, Karmanos (On the executive committee) only southern US cities need apply for expansion. You read the article JayR posted. |
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Post by mikecubs on Jun 8, 2016 6:55:13 GMT -6
Is it he can't make the payments? Or is it he wants an insane price for the market plus other insane demands like as part of the transition he gets final say for a while? He owes the NHL 300 Mill, and his kids cash too, what do you think? Does he own $300M or is that rumor from wishful Quebecors? Read on HF boards the limit is $100. The kids thing doesn't matter. If he owns them money but overall the team operation isn't hemorrhaging ala Phoenix I don't think the league lets them move. I'm just skeptical the Hurricanes are losing that much money. In the past with the data we have(leaked gate data, Forbes etc..) they've been no where near Coyote level type bad. |
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Post by mikecubs on Jun 8, 2016 7:28:38 GMT -6
Las Vegas in, Quebec screwed, No relocation, No expansion. Bettman and the idiots on the executive committee deserve to have Carolina and Arizona implode and need relocation and Quebec says....FU. No rational thinking what so ever, for anyone that doesn't have empathy for Quebec, think about what would have happened if Las Vegas would have been ready 5 years ago. We'd be screwed for eternity just as Quebec is. As long as you have total A**holes like Bettman, Daly, Karmanos (On the executive committee) only southern US cities need apply for expansion. In general there isn't any rational thinking in hockey and just not from the league office but a large amount of the fans too because the sport is in a civil war between north and south which is unique to only hockey. The concept of picking the best market is foreign to the league office/most fans. It's keep Canada out(and definitely Quebec) vs. fold every southern team(even the good ones) because it don't snow and let's recreate the 1980's (minus the kings with a few dying oversaturated rust belts added) Many of the southern fans are worst than Bettman even. I've seen many posts on HF boards advocating lopping off Vancouver(a top 6 team even) because they bring "nothing" to the league LOL. The southerns want only Montreal/Toronto. Bettman isn't quite as bad as the fans. He only rejects Quebec and didn't really want Winnipeg either. The southern fans want no judgments at all on hopeless situations like Phoenix/Florida etc.... Just continue on..... Most of them can't grasp even if hockey did catch on in the south(other than LA,SJ, Dallas) you can have all 8 Canadian cities too and really rake in the money. It doesn't have to be one or the other. On the northern side lets be honest. They are just as bad. They'd be just like Bettman in rejecting Quebec and lop off a top 10 team like LA, and also San Jose and Dallas because it doesn't snow. They'd also put teams in dying oversaturated rust belts like Milwaukee, Cleveland, probably Cincinnati too. Plus in their eyes Hartford can do no wrong. Small city, not growing, poor Whaler attendance, poor AHL attendance, doesn't matter. Many of the northern fans who complain about Phoenix just loved the St. Louis Rams on HF boards and wanted them to stay which makes them total 100% hypocrites. The northerners just like the southerners want 0 judgments on any northern market. Look at how many years the Blues have lost money for example. You never heard boo about them being relocated. Look at how many years Buffalo lost money and how at one point they almost went under. It just sucks that the game of hockey itself is so cool but you have the stupid civil war holding it back and market decisions come down entirely to EMOTION not rational business sense. Regarding your post the fix was in when they guaranteed Detroit/Columbus to stay in the east. That was done as an excuse to keep Quebec out. The NHL had to create a crisis/excuse to reject Quebec and that was it. They definitely would have picked Vegas over Winnipeg. It was 100% perfect timing/a miracle Winnipeg got a team. I think the league views Quebec as a lot worst than Winnipeg even. In their minds it's small and worst of all it's a mostly 100% foreign language speaking city. They think American fans will be turned off from hockey because of something like that and think it's minor league/not like the other sports so keep them out. There is a decent chance also Bettman is just an outright anti-French bigot. Could you imagine the uproar if last January Roger Goodall announced we were going to return the Rams to their rightful home in LA but we can't because their are too many hispanics in LA so we are leaving them in St. Louis or moving them elsewhere? The other reason to keep Quebec out is spite(north vs south civil war). We will teach those Canadians/northeast hockey fans a lesson they soon won't forget. |
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Post by donwood on Jun 8, 2016 14:59:27 GMT -6
He owes the NHL 300 Mill, and his kids cash too, what do you think? Does he own $300M or is that rumor from wishful Quebecors? Read on HF boards the limit is $100. The kids thing doesn't matter. If he owns them money but overall the team operation isn't hemorrhaging ala Phoenix I don't think the league lets them move. I'm just skeptical the Hurricanes are losing that much money. In the past with the data we have(leaked gate data, Forbes etc..) they've been no where near Coyote level type bad. 300 million is what Gary Lawless stated on H&L |
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Post by donwood on Jun 8, 2016 15:01:30 GMT -6
How could Carolina not be purging money? Less than 13,000 people per game at AHL prices.
Have you seen some if the promotions? $40 for 2 tickets, free parking, Hot Dog and a drink
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Post by mikecubs on Jun 8, 2016 17:15:47 GMT -6
I do think they lose money but NOT purge money like Phoenix. Unlike Phoenix though the arena is the only show in town and make money off concerts etc... Just cause Lawless stated it doesn't mean it's true. If that was true Karmanos would have asked for an illegal "arena management fee" ala the Coyotes. For leaked gate data they were tied for 18th in gate in 06-07,21st in 07-08, tied for 21st in 2010-11. Not a strong team but not the Coyotes. Basically they are a bit poorer version of the Blues. Data is a bit old and from an HF boards poster Between fiscal years 2002 and 2011, Gale Force Sports and Entertainment LLC lost between $2.2 million to $4.75 million annually. In 2005, the year of the lockout, Gale Force reported a net loss of $4.5 million. A year later, following the Stanley Cup, the loss was $2.9 million. www.indyweek.com/indyweek/instead-of-their-first-home-game-we-look-at-the-hurricanes-finances/Content?oid=3177102Now remember this is pre Canadian tv deal, more revenue sharing, player revenue going from 57% to 50% The Canes have also been quoted as saying the gate revenue was the same as the year before and the attendance losses this year was due to cutting out freebies. Unless I'm missing something leaving Raleigh isn't the right move. They have 2.8M people within a 1 hour drive, it's one of the top 5 fastest growing areas, the team loses money but doesn't hemorrhage, there will probably NEVER be another pro team put in Raleigh(no competition) because of the NFL/NBA in Charlotte. The proper move is to move the real hemmoragers(Phoenix/FLorida) that are on actual subsidies due to massive losses. |
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Post by mikecubs on Jun 8, 2016 17:29:42 GMT -6
From HF boards
Luke DeCock and Chip Alexander had a call Bettman just a bit ago. Some notes coming from DeCock on Twitter:
He asked 2 direct questions about PKs financial situation and how much the NHL has advanced the team.
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Bettman on PK finances: "we dont investigate our owners financial wherewithal on a weekly basis. The club is meeting its obligations
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Bettman said report of $300 million in loans from NHL was "ridiculous" and "absurd"
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Bettman on potential NHL advances: "I dont get involved in the discussion as to what clubs take advances on TV revenues. Many clubs do.
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Bettman said the trust in question in the Karmanos family lawsuit "has not been used for collateral." Dismissed again as a "family dispute".
And again says no relocation
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"I dont see the Hurricanes relocating, period....no truth to the speculation
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