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Post by mikecubs on Sept 24, 2019 14:25:46 GMT -6
Last October the at the NFL owners meeting the owners expressed concerns about the Chargers fan support in LA. The Chargers originally planed to sell $400M in PSL's. They revised that figure down to $150M Sources: NFL owners concerned about Chargers in LAIt's no secret that the Los Angeles Chargers have struggled to gain a foothold with fans since moving from San Diego last year, and the problems are hitting them on the bottom line. Sources told ESPN's Seth Wickersham that the viability of the Chargers in Los Angeles was a topic of discussion at the owners meetings here Tuesday and Wednesday. Multiple owners, who requested anonymity, said Wednesday that the topic was not brought up formally in the meetings but that there has been a lot of discussion on the side about the extent to which the Chargers are struggling to build a fan base in Los Angeles.The Chargers are currently playing in the StubHub Center in Carson, California. The venue seats about 30,000 people, which makes it about half as big as even the smallest NFL stadiums. Their plan is to move into the new stadium the Rams are building in Inglewood in 2020 and to function as a sort of "tenant" of the Rams rather than an equal partner in the venture. Sources told Wickersham, however, that the Chargers are expected to revise their initial Inglewood revenue goal from $400 million down to $150 million.Part of the lowered revenue projection could be tied to lower ticket prices in the new stadium. The Chargers on Wednesday announced prices for about 75 percent of their tickets for the new stadium when it opens in 2020, and they are advertising "more than 26,000 seats priced between $50 and $90 per seat, per game with an associated Stadium Seat License payment of only $100 for each seat."
"Each decision throughout this process has been made with the fan in mind, and we think the pricing announced today reflects this fact," A.G. Spanos, the team's president of business operations, said in the news release. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, when asked about what the league could do to help the Chargers, opened his response by singing the praises of the still-under-construction Inglewood project and said he expected the excitement over the new stadium to build as its opening gets closer. "Lots of football, lots of building still to do," Goodell said. "And frankly, we were out of the market for a long time, and we have to earn our way back with our fans. We have to build that relationship back with our fans and make sure that we do it right. Both teams are committed to that. "It will be something that we have to work at over a period of time. They both have very exciting young teams, and I think that will be helpful also. But I think all of those things will come together over the next two years. That's the work that needs to be done." www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25008111/nfl-owners-discuss-viability-chargers-los-angeles-according-sources
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Post by mikecubs on Sept 24, 2019 14:28:32 GMT -6
Well almost 1 year later it's been reveiled Rams owner Stan Kroenke is NOT happy with the Chargers lack of PSL sales. Remember the Chargers are a tenant and the PSL sales go toward helping him pay for the $4.9B construction cost of the stadium. Should everyone consider just moving the Chargers back to San Diego already?Posted on September 23, 2019 by Neil deMause With football season in full swing, it’s time for Los Angeles Chargers fans to start not showing up in droves again, and they happily obliged yesterday, with both lots of empty seats and lots of visiting fans despite playing in a 27,000-seat soccer stadium. Which is always fun for schadenfreude purposes, but it also seems to be alarming Los Angeles Rams owner Stan Kroenke, who is not at all happy that the Chargers’ alleged L.A. fan base isn’t turning out to pre-purchase seats to the new stadium the teams will share next year: Fred Roggin ✔ @frednbcla Multiple sources confirm there is friction in the #Rams #Chargers Inglewood Stadium relationship and the Chargers may not be pulling their share. This is a serious issue. The story Monday at noon @am570lasports2,061 10:35 PM - Sep 21, 2019 Twitter Ads info and privacy 1,352 people are talking about this That’s a pretty weak tease, admittedly, and also not really surprising, since as the Big Lead notes, there’s been tension between Kroenke and Chargers owner Dean Spanos ever since the two were forced into their L.A. marriage by the NFL a couple of years back. And it’s only been exacerbated by the Chargers’ ticket sales woes:
The Chargers told NFL owners they were projecting to make $400 million from PSL sales in Los Angeles. That number was part of the justification for leaving San Diego, as more money was available in the the nation’s second-biggest media market. After being in said market for more than a year, the franchise “adjusted” that projection from $400 million to $150 million. A little quick math shows that’s just 37.5 percent of the team’s initial projection. That’s also $250 million that would not be helping to fund Kroenke’s stadium. I’m pretty sure that’s wrong — not that the Chargers slashed PSL prices, that’s correct, but that Kroenke would have to take a $250 million bath as a result, since Spanos has to pay a share of stadium costs regardless of how much money he’s making from PSL sales. Unless the Chargers owner tries to get out of his obligation by claiming he doesn’t have the cash, which would indeed make for quite the Monday noon Pacific time bombshell. The bigger question here is: Why is everyone even going through this whole charade anymore? Sure, Kroenke (and the NFL) needed a tenant to help defray costs of the Rams’ new stadium, but now that the total price tag is up around $5 billion, any contribution from the Chargers is starting to seem like a drop in the bucket. (The Big Lead further claims that “Kroenke and the Rams would love nothing more than to completely remove the Chargers from the equation and have the Inglewood stadium all to themselves,” which seems odd since it’s not like Kroenke would be able to do much of anything else with the stadium on Rams off weeks, but this whole stadium keeps seeming more and more like an expensive vanity project anyway, so who knows?) So maybe would it make sense to look at just sending the Chargers back to San Diego, where their actual fans are? Sure, it would involve figuring out how to undo the Chargers’ $650 million relocation fee, and also you know Spanos won’t want to go back to San Diego unless he can find a way to leverage it into his own shiny new stadium, preferably paid for by someone not named Dean Spanos. But I think it’s fair to say that calling a do over is more of a non-zero possibility than it was a couple of years ago, which is pretty amazing considering the Chargers haven’t even moved into their new L.A. stadium yet. Let’s see what noon Pacific time brings. www.fieldofschemes.com/2019/09/23/15260/should-everyone-consider-just-moving-the-chargers-back-to-san-diego-already/
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Post by mikecubs on Sept 24, 2019 14:32:42 GMT -6
1.Fred Roggin was the only guy who was right on the whole LA relocation saga because basically the Rams front office was feeding him info.
2. Kroenke never wanted another team to share LA with he wanted it all for himself. The NFL's family owners who supported Dean Spanos forced Kroenke to accept the Chargers for the right to move the Rams to LA
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Post by mikecubs on Sept 24, 2019 14:40:29 GMT -6
OK so now the big question. What about a new San Diego Stadium. Well San Diego state university is building a 35,000 seat stadium(privately financed) that will cost only $250M at the site of the old Chargers stadium in mission valley. Ground breaking will be early 2020 with a completion date of 2022. However the stadium is expandable to 55,000 seats for an NFL return. The is no info on how much the expansion would cost or who would pay for it. Also the Chargers would be a tenant in a possible return to the school. The expanded stadium would also have 82 suites/50 loge boxes and 6,500 club seats. This is all WAY below average NFL wise but could probably work and be the NFL's version of the MTS centre(bear minimum acceptable/bear bones). The Chargers almost sure are going to give the new LA stadium a few years to hope it's so spectacular they can build an LA fan base and there is no option to return to San Diego right away. But keep the new San Diego state university stadium in mind. www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/SDSU-Releases-Football-Stadium-Renderings-550331381.htmlPics pre expansion NFL expansion
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Post by mikecubs on Sept 24, 2019 14:52:29 GMT -6
Something else to keep in mind about why the last stadium push in San Diego failed. The last stadium effort cost $1.8B with the following breakdown
team-$350M NFL-$300M city- $350M city land-$200M the city also had to pay $600M for a convention center attached to the stadium.
The last proposal also had a retractable roof which added $250M to $300M of cost
The last stadium was to seat 65,000 with 120 luxury boxes/50 loge boxes and 7500 club seats
So essentially the San Diego state university expanded stadium would seat 10,000 less compare to the old proposal with 38 less luxury boxes and 1,000 less club seats.
Not counting Oakland since it's the last year Soldier Field in Chicago is the smallest capacity with 61,500 The 6,500 club seats would be 4th to last in the NFL The 82 suites would be last(Jacksonville is current last with 88 suites) Though the chargers expanded stadium would have 50 loge boxes vs. Jacksonville's none
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Post by mikecubs on Oct 26, 2019 14:28:48 GMT -6
Strangers In A Strange Land Best Describes The Chargers’ LA ExperienceThe Los Angeles Chargers might have reached a new low over the weekend, and that’s in addition to losing to the previously winless Denver Broncos. The Chargers did a faceplant on numerous fronts before a “home” crowd that came strangely dressed in orange. Denver beat L.A. 20-13 as a lackadaisical Chargers bunch turned the ball over three times (twice in goal-to-go situations) and rushed for only 35 yards despite the return of two-time Pro Bowl running back Melvin Gordon. “We play like that and we won’t beat anybody,’’ Chargers coach Anthony Lynn. But it was the gathering that the Bolts were performing in front of that has to jolt the team’s bean counters and the NFL suits on Park Avenue. “It was two-thirds Broncos fans at the game,’’ a Chargers fan who wanted to remain nameless grumbled. “And the same was true for tailgate areas. Everywhere you looked it was a sea of orange.’’ There was no tsunami of customers at the box office, which is never a good sign when selling a product that has considerable competition in a region known as the entertainment capital of the world. That same fan mentioned above secured his ticket as if he was going to the movies. He just walked up to the window and bought it, for $129, with the employee asking if he needed more. He didn’t, just like the prevailing evidence that the Chargers move to L.A. after 56 years in San Diego remains a bust. CBS, which is among NFL’s broadcasting partners, was among those piling on as the Chargers’ L.A. game-day experience, now in its third season, presents the team with few benefits. When the Chargers approached the line of scrimmage faced with a third-and-2, inside the Broncos 40-yard-line, the commentary was cringe-worthy. “ How about this? You’re at a Chargers home game and you can hear the roar, you can hear the chant, ‘defense,’’’ CBS’ Jim Nantz said.
Nantz’s partner, Tony Romo, chuckled at a situation which is no laughing matter if you’re peddling Chargers football.
“The Chargers...you don’t get any home-field advantage,’’ Romo said.Nantz concurred, mentioning that often the Chargers deploy a silent count to get a play off in the not-so-friendly confines of Carson’s Dignity Health Sports Park. “It’s a different atmosphere,’’ Broncos quarterback Joe Flacco said. “You don’t know who’s cheering for who sometimes.’’ That the Chargers are struggling to gain a following in L.A. is hardly breaking news. The same is true of other teams’ boosters dominating a stadium that was built for soccer and has an NFL team as a tenant. It’s one that kicked its one-time loyal fan base – the one in San Diego – right in the teeth. “It’s kind of a cool place, honestly,’’ Flacco added. “It’s not too dissimilar from a really nice Double-A (baseball) stadium, and it’s cool to see a lot of orange jerseys in the stands.’’ It’s green that counts, of course, in the NFL. According to Forbes, the Chargers’ franchise is worth $2.5 billion, which is an increase of 11 percent over the past year. That figure will continue to escalate when the Chargers move into the $5 billion entertainment complex, with the L.A. Rams, for the 2020 season. But the optics of a team’s fan base in the nation’s second-largest city being easily eclipsed but that of its rivals’ followers - in addition to tickets being available at kickoff in a venue which tops out at under 26,000 – wasn’t what the NFL envisioned in its return to L.A. That the apathy comes on the heels of a squad which went 12-4 last year, with a playoff win, has to be disheartening. There was a collection of Chargers fans gathered around a car waiting for the post-game traffic to ease. Blaring from the speakers was the chorus from the team fight song that spoke of days gone by, when those attending on Sundays wore the Chargers’ colors in abundance. “San Diego Super Chargers, San Diego Chargers! San Diego Super Chargers, San Diego Chargers! Charge!” The diddy with a disco beat was on repeat, coming through loud and clear, as if serving as a reminder of how strong the brand was when it was located some 100 miles south.www.forbes.com/sites/jayparis/2019/10/07/strangers-in-a-strange-land-best-describes-the-chargers-la-experience/#96464106f5b4
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Post by Ric O. on Oct 26, 2019 19:03:08 GMT -6
I still think of them as the San Diego Chargers...probably always will.
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Post by mikecubs on Oct 26, 2019 20:22:11 GMT -6
I still think of them as the San Diego Chargers...probably always will. You aren't the only one. All the people I talk football with still call them San Diego. In the Chargers 1st game in LA the ref accidentally said San Diego when explaining a penalty on the Chargers. Just last weekend Deion Sanders on NFL primetime called the Chargers San Diego accidentally.
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Post by mikecubs on Dec 30, 2019 16:47:30 GMT -6
Philip Rivers sounds off about Chargers stadium setup after being forced to go with silent snap counts at home Opposing fans have been repeatedly taking over the Chargers' home stadiumThe Los Angeles Chargers have one of the oddest situations in football, a team without a true stadium to call home. A s the Chargers are about to complete their third season in Los Angeles after their controversial exit from San Diego, their situation hasn't improved. Los Angeles has resorted to using silent snap counts at Dignity Health Sports Park, their home stadium, due to the abundance of opposing fans taking over in the past three years. This season, rabid fan bases of the Pittsburgh Steelers, Minnesota Vikings and Oakland Raiders took over the soccer-specific stadium, which seats just 27,000. Because fans sit so close to the action, it can be hard for the teams to hear the signals relaying in from the sidelines. That's not supposed to be the case for the home team, but that's the situation Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers faces on a weekly basis. As the Chargers wrapped up their home schedule with a 24-17 loss to the Oakland Raiders, Rivers sounded off on Chargers fans as the team played its final game at Dignity Health. Next season, Los Angeles moves into SoFi Stadium at Hollywood Park, sharing the field with the Los Angeles Rams. Rivers hopes things will change even as he faces an uncertain future (as CBS Sports colleague Patrik Walker points out). Tyler Bischoff @bischoff_Tyler Philip Rivers complaining he can't hear because of how loud the Raiders fans are. For a Chargers home game. Embedded video 3,425 5:07 PM - Dec 22, 2019 Twitter Ads info and privacy 1,007 people are talking about this "I think we definitely have gotten used to it," a frustrated Rivers said after the loss. "What will be in years to come remains to be seen. It's tough. "That didn't have anything to do with the outcome of the game, but being someone who remembers what it used to be like at home games it's pretty bad, you know. I appreciate the Chargers fans that are out there, but it's disheartening to say the least. I don't think all our guys understand that ... the guys that have been here for a long time certainly know what it used to be like."No surprise Rivers mentioned San Diego when criticizing Los Angeles, as the Southern California city was where the Chargers used to call home. San Diego tried for 15 years to get a new stadium to keep the Chargers in the city, but was unable to find a proper location. There were at least nine different stadium proposals since 2003. Rivers was an advocate of staying in San Diego, not wanted the franchise to relocate in the first place. The Chargers' all-time passing leader may be on his way out, but hopes things get better for the only franchise he's ever played for. B ased on the past three seasons, the Chargers are the stepchild in the Los Angeles market. That doesn't seem likely to change any time soon. www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/philip-rivers-sounds-off-about-chargers-stadium-setup-after-being-forced-to-go-with-silent-snap-counts-at-home/
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Post by mikecubs on Dec 30, 2019 16:52:44 GMT -6
These maps show how the Rams dominate the Chargers in Southern California ticket salesThe Chargers aren’t leaving Los Angeles. That was the message Chargers owner Dean Spanos delivered in emphatic, expletive-laden comments to reporters on Nov. 5. A dearth of Chargers fans at recent home games against the Pittsburgh Steelers and Green Bay Packers fueled speculation the team might move to London. Despite the steadfast denials from Spanos and the NFL, it’s no secret the Chargers are struggling to attract fans since their move to L.A. three seasons ago. A glimpse of the seats filled with fans of the opposing team during Chargers home games shows how they’ve been on a virtual permanent road trip since relocating from San Diego in 2017. Analyzing Southern California NFL ticket sales data from Vivid Seats, an online ticket marketplace, exposes the Chargers’ struggles. Though Spanos said the team is making inroads into growing its fan base, the data show it has a long way to go to match the Rams in ticket sales. The zip code data released by Vivid only includes the percent sold to each team, not the the total tickets sold. While it cannot show the overall number of fans, it offers a rare view into how the fanbases are relatively distributed.What are the most popular teams in your ZIP Code? Rams Chargers Non-L.A. team The Rams have fared well in reestablishing their L.A. fan base since returning from St. Louis in 2016. They dominate NFL ticket sales in Los Angeles, Ventura, San Bernardino, Riverside and Orange counties. A big portion of the Chargers’ ticket sales still come from areas outside the L.A. market in San Diego and Imperial counties. This isn’t too surprising considering the Rams’ long history in Southern California. The Rams played in the Coliseum from 1946 to 1979 before playing in what was then known as Anaheim Stadium from 1980 until their move to St. Louis after the 1994 season. During their first Southern California stint, the Rams won consecutive NFL championships in 1950 and ‘51, reached the Super Bowl in 1979 and made the playoffs 21 times.The Chargers’ historical footprint in L.A. is significantly smaller — the franchise played its inaugural season in L.A. in 1960 before moving to San Diego. Like the Rams, the Chargers’ decision to move back to L.A. was rooted almost exclusively in the inability to get a publicly financed stadium deal done. Unlike the Rams, however, the Chargers didn’t have a 49-year legacy in the L.A. market to bolster their return.Another factor in the ticket sales gulf between the Rams and Chargers are their home stadiums. The Rams can host up to 90,000 fans in the Coliseum while the Chargers are limited to 27,000 at Dignity Health Sports Park — by far the smallest stadium in the NFL. Both teams will play in the 70,000-seat SoFi Stadium in Inglewood beginning next season. Raiders and Cardinals have fans in Southern California The legacy of the Oakland Raiders’ L.A. foray from 1982 to 1994 also isn’t helping the Chargers. The Raiders still have a fan base in L.A. — one that likely will never switch allegiance to the team’s AFC West rival. Even with a failed bid to move to Southern California, The Raiders’ pending move to Las Vegas still brings them closer to L.A., which could have an effect on the Chargers’ ticket sales. The Arizona Cardinals still sell tickets in L.A. and have a strong fan base in eastern Imperial County. Will the Chargers one day stand on equal footing with the Rams when it comes to ticket sales in Los Angeles? The Rams’ L.A. identity is now 53 years strong. The NFL likely will need to adopt a patient approach with the Chargers if L.A. remains the team’s permanent home. www.latimes.com/projects/rams-chargers-fan-map-la/
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Post by mikecubs on Dec 30, 2019 16:56:11 GMT -6
^^^^Click on the link and check out the interactive map with the zip codes, the Chargers are in deep trouble!
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Post by ekjet72 on Dec 30, 2019 17:46:43 GMT -6
They should move to St Louis!
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Post by mikecubs on Dec 30, 2019 18:06:57 GMT -6
They should move to St Louis! (puke)St. Louis is out of the football business given what happened and that is the last place that should funding stadiums given the financial state of the city. St. Louis has an awful attendance history for both the former Cardinals and Rams. St. Louis was also the 2nd smallest 3 team city and is not growing. They belong in San Diego!!!
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Post by ekjet72 on Dec 31, 2019 0:27:54 GMT -6
They should move to St Louis! (puke)St. Louis is out of the football business given what happened and that is the last place that should funding stadiums given the financial state of the city. St. Louis has an awful attendance history for both the former Cardinals and Rams. St. Louis was also the 2nd smallest 3 team city and is not growing. They belong in San Diego!!! Messages never convey the sarcasm. St Louis is the perfect destination for the Chargers. Previous home of the Cardinals and Rams, they too have suffered the small market challenges compounded by avaricious owners. Perpetual rotation of teams recycled through small markets promising more than they can afford. Do you really think the locals in LA are going to support the Rams once their team loses its winning ways. They didn't before; what makes this century different?
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Post by mikecubs on Dec 31, 2019 3:52:42 GMT -6
(puke)St. Louis is out of the football business given what happened and that is the last place that should funding stadiums given the financial state of the city. St. Louis has an awful attendance history for both the former Cardinals and Rams. St. Louis was also the 2nd smallest 3 team city and is not growing. They belong in San Diego!!! Messages never convey the sarcasm. St Louis is the perfect destination for the Chargers. Previous home of the Cardinals and Rams, they too have suffered the small market challenges compounded by avaricious owners. Perpetual rotation of teams recycled through small markets promising more than they can afford. Do you really think the locals in LA are going to support the Rams once their team loses its winning ways. They didn't before; what makes this century different? Oops I thought you were actually serious The perfect destination is San Diego. It's their team, a city of 3.4M with only the Padres for competition, a decent attendance history past 1995. LA did support the Rams until the last 4 years when Georgia Fonterie(sp) let it be clear the team was relocating. The Rams were above league average attendance in 36 of 49 NFL seasons the 1st time around WITHOUT a real football stadium in either LA or Anaheim. 11 times they led the league in attendance, When they went below average it was just a few % points below(excluding the last 4 years, those were horrific) The support was so good the owners tried to block here from moving to St. Louis but she threatened to sue so they left her go. Ranking by year 1946 2 of 10 1947 5 of 10 1948 5 of 10 1949 1 of 10 1950 6 of 13 1951 1 of 12 1952 1 of 12 1953 1 of 12 1954 1 of 12 1955 1 of 12 1956 1 of 12 1957 1 of 12 1958 1 of 12 1959 1 of 12 1960 1 of 21 1961 7 of 22 1962 9 of 22 1963 9 of 22 1964 5 of 22 1965 13 of 22 1966 10 of 24 1967 6 of 25 1968 4 of 26 1969 3 of 26 1970 2 of 26 1971 3 of 26 1972 4 of 26 1973 2 of 26 1974 2 of 26 1975 4 of 26 1976 4 of 26 1977 10 of 28 1978 14 of 28 1979 17 of 28 1980 8 of 28 1981 11 of 28 1982 16 of 28 1983 15 of 28 1984 17 of 28 1985 15 of 28 1986 10 of 28 1987 18 of 28 1988 17 of 28 1989 11 of 28 1990 12 of 28 1991 22 of 28 1992 25 of 28 1993 25 of 28 1994 28 of 28 The Dodgers, Angles, Lakers, Clippers always draw great attendance, the Ducks get by. The Raiders drew well too up until Al Davis started with the NWA stuff and marketing to gangs. The Rams also have the tons of LA fans that are fans of other teams that they can draw. If fans don't like the team there are plenty of Packers, Bears, Cowboys, Steelers fans etc... to count on. LA's only attendance blemish(s) are the current Chargers, the Chargers 1st and only season in LA in 1960. I do wonder though about paying for the stadium regardless of how many seats/PSL's they sell. $4.9B is insane. Word is in the next CBA the other owners are going to give a second stadium round of stadium funding to help Kroenke. I just can't see any market being good enough to pay for a private $4.9B stadium. The Rams have lost their winning ways which didn't last long. No playoffs, too much money into players who aren't elite(Jarred Goff) or who are no longer elite(Todd Gurley), they spent too much money on Brandon Cook(his brain is mush from too many concussions and he may be forced to retire early). They lost their next 2 1st round picks for Jalen Ramsey. The Rams have had only 2 winning seasons of 4 in LA and the future is bleakish other than having Aaron Donald locked up.
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