kj79
2nd Line Winger
Posts: 329
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Post by kj79 on Aug 2, 2011 22:03:40 GMT -6
Of course they`re going to use a Jet, but they did not need to use a military logo, is the argument he is presenting.
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crow
4th Line Grinder
Posts: 155
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Post by crow on Aug 2, 2011 22:06:16 GMT -6
It's simple if u don't like the new logo where the old logo!! Problem solved lol
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Post by dkehler on Aug 2, 2011 22:30:54 GMT -6
Sadly, I guess I'm one of the people that doesn't "get" John K Samson. I don't get the so-called irony of the "I hate Winnipeg" nonsense in their most famous song. I don't think that reflects well on our city having a bunch of people from Winnipeg or anywhere else singing that song, whether they mean it ironically or not.
This latest article from him is just more handwringing. The logo is what it is and there is nothing wrong with it. I think the people looking to criticize it are the same people that didn't want the Jets name back in the first place.
Hint: It's okay to be proud of our men and women in the military without being in favour of war or killing or any of the things that are making people feel uncomfortable about the logo.
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Post by ducky75 on Aug 2, 2011 22:39:12 GMT -6
It's not irony, it's malaise or self-reflection. Even the most devout Winnipegger (or resident of any city for that matter) has thought at one point or another "I hate this (fill in the name) effin city." It's an example of malaise, not irony, and not a slag against the Peg. If you want an example of how the theme of that song is beyond just Winnipeg, search google video for"One Great City." The number one video search result is a vid about TORONTO set to that song.
And from reading his article, I think his big problem is about 5 year-old kids sketching CF-18 hornets into their notebooks. I may not agree, but I see his point.
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z
4th Line Grinder
Posts: 103
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Post by z on Aug 2, 2011 22:59:17 GMT -6
This argument was tired before it began. I don't see how some people seem to get so worked up when people dislike the military theme. It is easily the most overt military reference in North American pro sports, unless you count Pat Patriot. It's right up there with Arsenal, IMO. But you're going to get that reaction from a certain segment. Why try and counter it each time? It's tedious.
The only reasonable counter I see to Samson, is that the Air Force doesn't use that logo any more, and slowly people will come to associate it more with the Jets rather than some military-industrial complex that they fear our society is developing. Assuming they don't change it.
That and fighter jets are WAAAAYYY cooler than passenger jets.
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Post by Nikolai on Aug 2, 2011 23:48:39 GMT -6
It's interesting reading this debate as an American, where Cold War era propaganda like G.I. Joe and Transformers was drilled into my head from birth. I don't particularly see the direct connection here, but the indirect connection isn't something to ignore. Canada has (or maybe had) a lot more good sense about how to balance their patriotic feelings and military boondoggles. It is something worth discussing.
I think the Jet itself is a solid color of gray, only loosely resembling any particular Jet. It is what you make of it. From a logo standpoint, I still think it's bold in its simplicity and striking in its iconography. When these Jets win some games and especially when they start giving back to the community and representing Winnipeg abroad, I think some of these concerns will fall to the wayside.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2011 23:53:45 GMT -6
...being a bit of a "read between the lines" guy, I'm thinking mr. weatherthan is looking for free publicity for his band's upcoming album -- I Hate Winnipeg Jets Logo, with such hits such as "I hate the fact I didn't get tickets to Jet games", "I hate the fact that I lost a bet to a guy that the logo would have a Polar Bear holding a Hockey Stick", "Die Die Vinnipeg Die", "Its' frickin' cold -- I need some Kubasa!", and their ballad -- "Bettman's my bitch!".
And what gives a musician any more of an authority over someone else? Your a musician -- technically, a fellow artist. Its a logo -- a kitchen magnet, a marketing tool, a sticker -- something that little kids can draw on their binders in math class when they're bored trying to learn binomials.
It's a stupid argument -- and when jersey's sell out in 17min & we break NHL merchandise records come October 31st, 2011, who's going to say that the logo sucks?!?!?
sheesh.
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1979
Captain "C"
Posts: 671
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Post by 1979 on Aug 3, 2011 0:46:31 GMT -6
sigh. Okay. I really like the logo, and I am a big Weakerthans fan, and I do get an appreciate the song, and how it really is a kind of love song for city and it's people.
I see his point. I disagree though, because kids are full of opportunities to innocently worship war-related things. I did. I'm not a gun nut. I think it's an overreaction.
He's not looking for publicity. He wrote a little blurb about the Jets coming back, and said he would post something if they were called the Jets again (he said he'd be mad at them being called the Jets, but he doesn't seem to be, like a lot of people who told me they would be - so it goes), but something was expected from him anyway form certain people - that's why he wrote it. It didn't get to the Freep or the Sun, just for his typical audience, but because it was Jets related it got a lot of attention.
Also, the jerseys selling out doesn't mean anything about the logo not sucking (even though I agree that it doesn't suck). The jerseys could still sell out and the logo could still suck, for the reason he gave. Assuming he were right (I say he's not), just because people buy into the militaristic advertisement (it's not, but people will misconstrue) doesn't mean that it's not one. Plenty of people buy Nickelback albums, but I still don't like 'em, for reasons I believe are sound. Anyway. Just my two cents.
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Post by jjmoohead on Aug 3, 2011 1:56:58 GMT -6
BAH! File this article under boring. Anyone that looks at that logo as anything more then a tribute to history and giving the name Winnipeg Jets some meaning is an idiot. These people need to get their head out of their....well you know. The logo is great, I have had nothing but positive comments from the people I talk to and the only ones that don't seem to like some part of it are die hard fans for another team. I get everyone is allowed their opinion, some however should just keep it to themselves. That includes the man in the article.
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Post by newjets on Aug 3, 2011 5:40:40 GMT -6
It's interesting reading this debate as an American, where Cold War era propaganda like G.I. Joe and Transformers was drilled into my head from birth. I don't particularly see the direct connection here, but the indirect connection isn't something to ignore. Canada has (or maybe had) a lot more good sense about how to balance their patriotic feelings and military boondoggles. It is something worth discussing. I think the Jet itself is a solid color of gray, only loosely resembling any particular Jet. It is what you make of it. From a logo standpoint, I still think it's bold in its simplicity and striking in its iconography. When these Jets win some games and especially when they start giving back to the community and representing Winnipeg abroad, I think some of these concerns will fall to the wayside. I agree. The debate about the logo is utter nonsense. The Jet that is featured in the logo is an artist's rendition of a fighter Jet and not one that was directly taken from something that actually exists. It has elements of current fighter jets in service but that's about it. The thing about war/ military puzzles me. These morons are too ignorant to dissassociate 'war' and 'military' because they are indeed separate entities. When the military is called in to aid people in disaster situations, no one complains. If kids are drawing the fighter jet in the logo, more power to them. When I drew an X wing blowing up a Tie Fighter in elementary school, was I a future warmonger? LOL! Of course not.  |
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Post by Nikolai on Aug 3, 2011 8:04:47 GMT -6
If kids are drawing the fighter jet in the logo, more power to them. When I drew an X wing blowing up a Tie Fighter in elementary school, was I a future warmonger? LOL! Of course not. Holy crap, now imagine if the Winnipeg Jets had an X-Wing Fighter in the center of the logo. PROBLEM SOLVED. The Oilers logo even looks like a Death Star, kind of, now that I think about it. |
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Post by funkybullwinkle on Aug 3, 2011 9:05:00 GMT -6
An organization- like people- can honor the military that serves to protect them, without being militaristic / war hungry.
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Post by bcmike on Aug 3, 2011 9:11:52 GMT -6
This was my comment at the Winnipeg Review site:
"Your piece is well written and and thoughtful. However, I can't help but think it's much to do about nothing.
It's kind of like saying the Detroit Red Wings are shilling for the auto industry or that the Chicago Blackhawks are glorifying the Mohawk Warrior Society. It's a reach.
Sometimes a Jet is just a Jet, and the logo draws more parallels with the 40's RCAF than the current Canadian Air Command.
But I guess if you can draw a romanticized view of world exploration from the 70's Jets logo, anything is possible. "
Thats the cool thing about Canada though. We can both be Jets fans and come out on different sides of the logo issue.
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Post by chevy on Aug 3, 2011 9:33:23 GMT -6
I think that there are always gonna be logo haters out there and to that I say, "so be it". I wonder though, are these same people blogging on the blue jackets site for glorifying the civil war? or perhaps complaining about the cannon on the Jackets 3rd jersey? Are these same people Blogging on the Av's sites, after all people die every year i avalanche's and they are a serious threat when they happen. Maybe they pick on the east coast teams like the Devils for promoting hate and anti religion with there team name and logo. I am sure these blogger would have had a hay day when the whalers were still around.
The bottom line to me is that there are always gonna be people out there who want to rain on the parade and just love to hear the sound of their own voice and our new team has given them that chance. to all these people I have but one thing to say..... GO JETS GO!
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Post by rusty on Aug 3, 2011 10:03:46 GMT -6
no one cares what he thinks of the logo and if he is going to buy merchandise. So don't feel the need to let us all know in some letter. Other than self loathing, what did he expect his letter to accomplish? A personal apology from Mark Chipman and a change of plans? C'mon... Obviously he didn't expect that, so what was the point other than complaining? Does this guy live on woesley?
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