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Post by peter26 on Aug 11, 2012 18:40:40 GMT -6
Before 1994, the big O draw a lot of people. I remember as a kid watching games on a little TV in the backyard on Saturday nights.
I think Mtl can get a team back. Loria just stole it from us. There's a good baseball history here in the province of QC.
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Post by wolfmannick on Aug 11, 2012 20:49:53 GMT -6
^I agree with you dude, hopefully someday soon, but first the Nordiques.
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Post by peter26 on Aug 11, 2012 21:30:07 GMT -6
^I agree with you dude, hopefully someday soon, but first the Nordiques. I cannot agree more with you on this!!! My Nords first... Then Les Amours!
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Post by wolfmannick on Aug 12, 2012 1:19:39 GMT -6
^ I keep reading that it will take a media giant as owner of the the field and team in order for baseball to work in Montreal. Its how it works in Toronto with Rogers owning both the Skydome and the Blue Jays. I would love the Expos to come back but first fans have to show they have a deep passion to have a baseball team again and be able to convince a big pocketed investor to take the necessary steps to secure a team in the market. Is it a ways off, absolutley, dosen't mean don't start trying to get the team back. I hope Montreal does get their team back someday.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 12, 2012 2:54:48 GMT -6
Report: Montreal can support Major League Baseball It was not because their fans didn't care or that the city couldn't support them that the Expos left Montreal in 2004, according to a report by the Conference Board of Canada. But one of the key problems that helped drive the Expos out seven years ago — an uneven economic playing field between teams — makes it unlikely that the city will get another Major League Baseball team any time soon, the report concludes. “Montreal has a long and proud baseball history,” Mario Lefebvre, a co-author of The Future of Major League Baseball in Canada with Glen Hodgson, said in a statement on Friday. “It was the city where Jackie Robinson broke the colour barrier in professional baseball. “It was the first city outside the United States to obtain a major league team in 1969 and the first Canadian franchise to make the playoffs in 1981. But MLB broke the hearts of Montreal fans in 1994, when the season was cancelled while the Expos had the best record in baseball. MLB has done little to change its business model so more teams can be competitive consistently. Without a more level playing field, the Expos' tri-colour caps are likely to remain collectors' items.” The report said the Toronto Blue Jays are in no trouble despite being in a division with two of the richest teams, Boston and the New York Yankess. It said a solid market, stable ownership linked to broadcasting and an attractive stadium make the Blue Jays a viable franchise. The wide disparity in revenue between clubs and a weak Canadian dollar are seen as the main reasons the Expos were bought out by MLB and moved to Washington. The report said Montreal has everything needed to support a team, especially with a much stronger dollar in recent years. They are: — A team needs a population of at least 2.5 million to support a team and Montreal's metropolitan area has 3.8 million. — While Montreal ranks eighth among urban centres in Canada in disposable income, its people have “an appetite for entertainment” and enough money to attend games. — It has enough of a corporate presence. It has 98 of Canada's 800 largest companies, ranking third behind Toronto and Calgary. However, the report points out that the economic playing field in baseball is “the least-level of the four major North American sports. “The lack of a hard cap on player salaries and massive differences in revenue (including attendance, sale of broadcasting rights, merchandise and other income) among franchises make consistent winning very difficult for all but a handful of rich teams.” It said a new Montreal franchise would not be among the richest clubs so companies may be reluctant to invest. The team would also likely need a new stadium due to “the many problems of the Olympic Stadium as a baseball venue.” The authors said perceptions that baseball fans no longer wanted the team are false. “Today's generation of sports fans may think Montreal is not a baseball city, but Montreal was at one time very much a baseball city,” it said. “So lets get this straight: the love for the game was there. While the Expos eventually did leave, it wasn't because the fans didn't care. Neither was it because, as our market pillars show, the city couldn't support a Major League Baseball team.” The Conference Board is one of Canada's leading not-for-profit research organizations. I saw this article way last year when it came out. At best the Expos would be the Canadian version of Pittsburgh or Kansas City. Nothing wrong with that if they could do it. Those teams aren't world beaters but they are viable. Those are the 2 weakest teams in MLB that are viable. The problem is those teams can't retain their star players unless they take a home count discount like Andrew McClutchin. The Expos would be in the same boat. Could the new Expos get semi-decent tv ratings and at minimum draw 21,000-22,000 fans like KC or Pittsburgh as soon as a star player left for the BoSox or yankees? I have my doubts. In the early 2000's the interest was so low in the Expos they went a full season without an English TV deal.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 12, 2012 3:05:35 GMT -6
I've always wondered why Montreal never pursued an NBA franchise, considering they already have the modern venue for it (Bell Centre). Talking about things like a Vancouver or Montreal MLB franchise is a waste of time, considering there are absolutely no plans to build new $500 MILLION ballparks. Like I said, a Montreal NBA venue is ready to go tomorrow, if necessary. +1 My guess is that despite the sold out preseason game 2 years ago there is not enough interest in basketball in Montreal to support a team full time unfortunately. I'd love to see it happen however. Montreal is getting another preseason game this year however so I hope they sell it out and make a great impression. If Montreal ever did show the interest for a team full time no doubt it will happen. Stern is very pro-Europe and Montreal is the closest thing you can get to Europe in North America. I don't think however talking about MLB to Montreal is a waste of time. It's unlikely but not hopeless. While they struggled the 1st time they weren't exactly the Phoenix Coyotes either. A weak argument can be made that it could work. They did have MLB for 36 years. Vancouver has got 0 shot. Not big enough and the city just spent 600M on BC place. Talking about MLB to Vancouver is like talking about putting an NHL team in Honolulu.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 12, 2012 4:11:59 GMT -6
^ I keep reading that it will take a media giant as owner of the the field and team in order for baseball to work in Montreal. Its how it works in Toronto with Rogers owning both the Skydome and the Blue Jays. I would love the Expos to come back but first fans have to show they have a deep passion to have a baseball team again and be able to convince a big pocketed investor to take the necessary steps to secure a team in the market. Is it a ways off, absolutley, dosen't mean don't start trying to get the team back. I hope Montreal does get their team back someday. Agree Montreal should at least try to build interest and get a team. But it's going to be tough. At ton would have to happen for MLB to return 1. A new stadium costing at least 500M today with mostly public $ would be needed. Most of the current stadiums built today for small markets have had mostly public funding. 2. Finding a team. This might be harder than the stadium. There has been 1 MLB relocation since 1972. The last time an American team moved the Vietnam war was still going on!! A team with a new stadium isn't going to move in MLB(like the Coyotes or Thrashers in the NHL). 28 of the 30 teams have adequate stadiums. MLB is awash in cash. The small market San Diego Padres just sold for $800 M dollars This is the team that had a fire sale 2 years ago trading away Adrian Gonzalez and Jake Peavy. MLB is getting close to becoming the NFL. Local media rights are exploding. Google new LA dodgers TV deal or new San Diego Padres TV deal. The national TV deals with Fox, ESPN etc are expected to double! This is NOT Gary Bettman's NHL. The only way for a team to move is to have a crap stadium. Only teams that fall into that category is Oakland and Tampa. There is NOT going to be expansion. US and Canada are out of realistic cities to expand to unless you consider Montreal viable. MLB has to have an even amount of teams because they play every day so there can't be a 1 team expansion if Montreal is deemed viable. Another sign of no expansion is that when the Houston Astros were sold this year MLB paid the new owner 70 million dollars to move into the AL West so the divisions are balanced out at 5 teams each. If expansion was coming they would have left the Astros in the NL and added 2 teams to the AL to balance it out at 16 teams in each league. 3. Rebuild the fan interest they did have. You'd have to basically start from stratch. The last 7 years attendance wise were worse than the Coytoes You'd have to give the city amnesia over what happened over the last 10 years because the last 10 years were the ugliest 10 years any franchise probably has ever had. 4. A complete "culture" change in the people regarding baseball overall in Montreal. Everything was always someone elses fault. Olympic Stadium sucked and I admit no team anywhere could have survived in that peace of crap. But the Expos problems went well beyond that. It was always the strikes fault even though the strike ruined the world series chances of teams like the Cleveland Indians or Chicago White Sox. Those teams had not won in ages and yet their fans didn't quit MLB. Or it was the fault of the Toronto BLue Jays for not allowing the Expos to broadcast into Ontario even though every other team in the league isn't allowed to broadcast into another teams territory. Or it was Selig, Claude Brochu or Lorias fault. What were they suppose to do? Public help for a new stadium wasn't coming. Fans completely quit coming. Why didn't any local owners step up at the time and save the Expos when the were MLB owned? Did Bud Selig kidnap all the local ownership groups? Or it was the lack of a salary cap that was at fault. Fans in other small market cities attend games even though the system isn't fair. Milwaukee is averaging over 30,000 despite losing star Prince Fielder last offseason. Could the Expos do the same or would the fans quit after something like that? A former Expos Warren Cromartie has started the Montreal baseball project. The goal is to return professional baseball of some kind most likely minor league to Montreal and most importantly changing the culture of blaming everyone for what went wrong. This is the best way to do it. Start with minor leagues and go from there.
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 12, 2012 4:36:41 GMT -6
Before 1994, the big O draw a lot of people. I remember as a kid watching games on a little TV in the backyard on Saturday nights. I think Mtl can get a team back. Loria just stole it from us. There's a good baseball history here in the province of QC. Peter, from 84 to 94 the Expos attendance was at best boarderline MLB level. Year Games Total Expos League 1984 81 1,606,531 19,834 21,256 1985 81 1,502,494 18,549 22,266 1986 80 1,128,981 14,112 22,590 1987 81 1,850,324 22,844 24,708 1988 81 1,478,659 18,255 25,238 1989 81 1,783,533 22,019 26,198 1990 81 1,373,087 16,952 26,044 1991 68 934,742 13,746 27,003 1992 81 1,669,127 20,607 26,529 1993 81 1,641,437 20,265 30,964 1994 52 1,276,250 24,543 31,256 Totals 848 16,245,165 19,157 25,623 Overall ranking 1984 17 of 26 1985 17 of 26 1986 24 of 26 1987 17 of 26 1988 22 of 26 1989 20 of 26 1990 23 of 26 1991 26 of 26 1992 21 of 26 1993 27 of 28 1994 21 of 28 How come the Expos were 21st in attendance with the world series favorite in 1994? How come they finished next to last in 1993 with a team that came very close to winning the division? Now an argument could be made that if people forgot the last 10 years and with a new/real downtown stadium attendance could go up into the 22,000 range. But it is a shakey bet. What if people are still mad about how the last 10 years went and 500M of public money is spend? Montreal becomes Glendale 2.0
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Post by mikecubs on Aug 12, 2012 4:47:28 GMT -6
Here are the end years excluding totals from Puerto Rico
1995 72 1,309,618 18,189 24,205 1996 81 1,616,709 19,959 26,510 1997 81 1,497,609 18,489 27,877 1998 81 914,909 11,295 29,054 1999 81 773,277 9,547 28,888 2000 81 926,272 11,435 29,378 2001 81 642,745 7,935 29,881 2002 81 812,045 10,025 28,169 2003 59 712,757 12,081 27,831 2004 59 531,545 9,009 30,075
Ranking 1995 19 of 28 1996 20 of 28 1997 23 of 28 1998 30 of 30 1999 30 of 30 2000 30 of 30 2001 30 of 30 2002 30 of 30 2003 30 of 30
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Post by wolfmannick on Aug 12, 2012 13:44:54 GMT -6
Why not do the Nordiques Nation thing of bringing Expos fans to other cities to try to build up hope for the return of baseball in Montreal. Show the League there are serious baseball fans in the city like Quebec does about hockey and the League may pay notice. yes, Montreal will most likely need a minor league team first to show that there is a legitimate fan base willing to goto games and supoort their team but by going around and showing up at Major League games, it shows montreal wants a team again.
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Sam
Captain "C"
Hello, hello!
Posts: 787
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Post by Sam on Aug 12, 2012 15:41:49 GMT -6
As far as other US markets go once LA is taken the NFL is out of viable markets. Other than Toronto the only place that gets talked about is London England. They have a modern stadium and the NFL plays 1 regular season London game that sells out. Roger Goodall is on record saying they are considering a London team. This is true. There was reports that they would put a bid in for the Olympic Stadium, as it easily meets the requirements of field size and stadium capacity (80 odd thousand, but it can also be retracted down to 25). If this were to happen, it would be amazing, I would love it so much. The money would be there, and I'm pretty sure the interest. 7 Million people live in London alone, and that's only in London City and boroughs. Bearing in mind the UK has 60 odd million people in it, there is definitely the demographics. Also being a small place, a lot of people would drive to see games 20 odd times a year, with London being accessible from all over the UK.
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Post by wolfmannick on Aug 12, 2012 16:05:57 GMT -6
The problem is travel and marketing. It will cost a lot of money and be time consuming to have a team in Europe and sceduling it for television would need to be creative and thus there would be like 8 am games so it could be broadcast in North America. I think Toronto will get a team long before London, and Toronto itself is a long ways off if it does ever happen .
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Post by slippy on Aug 12, 2012 17:50:10 GMT -6
The Montreal Expos were a lot like the Winnipeg Jets 1.0.
1) Terrible venue 2) Lousy ownership
Anyways, I can't understand why you guys want to waste time talking about MLB returning to Montreal. Personally I think it'd work, with a new, state-of-the-art ballpark & solid ownership.
BUT... (and this is something that should eliminate all this talk)
NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN BUILDING A **$500+ MILLION*** BALLPARK IN THE PROVINCE OF MONTREAL
So guys, please, stop wasting your time talking about it.
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Post by wolfmannick on Aug 12, 2012 18:13:30 GMT -6
I will admit it is a LONG way off. And I mean worse than Jets in 97 off. But there is reason to talk about it. The only way things change is if people want it and I'm sure there are a lot of baseball fans in Montreal who want a team back. Will it happen soon? Of course not. But if people don't talk about it it will take even longer.
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Post by slippy on Aug 12, 2012 19:36:11 GMT -6
How many people in Phoenix talked about getting a hockey team before the Coyotes came? No one.
How many people in Raleigh, North Carolina talked about getting a hockey team before they were awarded the Hartford Whalers? No one.
Etc., etc.
If you honestly, seriously want to discuss Montreal getting an MLB franchise back (again- I see it as a complete waste of time), tell me where the BRAND-NEW BALLPARK is going, and who has the $500 million to construct it. Links and sources would be awesome.
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