gee
Rookie
Posts: 19
|
Post by gee on Aug 12, 2012 19:45:57 GMT -6
exactly...
|
|
|
Post by TheDeuce on Aug 12, 2012 20:07:30 GMT -6
LOL - how'd I miss that?
m.
|
|
|
Post by slippy on Aug 12, 2012 21:58:23 GMT -6
When will shovels be in the ground for Montreals brand new $500 million MLB facility? Anyone have the link? This is exciting!
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 12, 2012 23:19:37 GMT -6
Why not do the Nordiques Nation thing of bringing Expos fans to other cities to try to build up hope for the return of baseball in Montreal. Show the League there are serious baseball fans in the city like Quebec does about hockey and the League may pay notice. yes, Montreal will most likely need a minor league team first to show that there is a legitimate fan base willing to goto games and supoort their team but by going around and showing up at Major League games, it shows montreal wants a team again. That was suppose to be tried this summer. The idea was they were going to pull a similar thing Nordique fans did in New Jersey. It was suppose to take place in Toronto in June against the old Expos the Washington Nationals. They hyped the thing up on twitter etc... The thing was a total complete bust A few people showed up in Expos caps that was it. Canadian media didn't even mention it because it was so pathetic.
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 12, 2012 23:34:07 GMT -6
As far as other US markets go once LA is taken the NFL is out of viable markets. Other than Toronto the only place that gets talked about is London England. They have a modern stadium and the NFL plays 1 regular season London game that sells out. Roger Goodall is on record saying they are considering a London team. This is true. There was reports that they would put a bid in for the Olympic Stadium, as it easily meets the requirements of field size and stadium capacity (80 odd thousand, but it can also be retracted down to 25). If this were to happen, it would be amazing, I would love it so much. The money would be there, and I'm pretty sure the interest. 7 Million people live in London alone, and that's only in London City and boroughs. Bearing in mind the UK has 60 odd million people in it, there is definitely the demographics. Also being a small place, a lot of people would drive to see games 20 odd times a year, with London being accessible from all over the UK. Word is that in 2013 the NFL will increase the amount of games in London to 2 games from the current 1 game a season. Goodall said if that goes well then they have to seriously consider giving London a team. The "proper" stat for Londons population is 13.7 million(this is the metro area). London would be the second biggest market in the NFL(3rd when LA gets a team). I worry about the interest long term because soccer is so popular but if the interest is there the league would be stupid not to do it. Everything else that is need for a team is there.
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 12, 2012 23:42:32 GMT -6
The problem is travel and marketing. It will cost a lot of money and be time consuming to have a team in Europe and sceduling it for television would need to be creative and thus there would be like 8 am games so it could be broadcast in North America. I think Toronto will get a team long before London, and Toronto itself is a long ways off if it does ever happen . Travel wouldn't be that bad. It's only 8 road games. It's not like its a 41 game NHL season. Biggest problem would be free agents signing with a London team. The NFL has the franchise player tag so that would help a ton but it can only be used on one player per year. Would NFL players mind playing overseas fulltime? Would fans get turned off long term if free agents wouldn't sign with a London team and it was a loser? London got some advantages over Toronto. They have a stadium and Toronto doesn't. Stadiums go for a billion dollars these days. The other problem is if the Buffalo Bills find a way to stay long term Toronto would be out.
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 13, 2012 0:03:12 GMT -6
The Montreal Expos were a lot like the Winnipeg Jets 1.0. 1) Terrible venue 2) Lousy ownership Anyways, I can't understand why you guys want to waste time talking about MLB returning to Montreal. Personally I think it'd work, with a new, state-of-the-art ballpark & solid ownership. BUT... (and this is something that should eliminate all this talk) NO ONE IS INTERESTED IN BUILDING A **$500+ MILLION*** BALLPARK IN THE PROVINCE OF MONTREALSo guys, please, stop wasting your time talking about it. +1 despite your lack of geography knowledge Your right this total long shot. The odds of finding a team and funding a stadium are probably less than 5%. I can't see in a million years any politician in Quebec blowing around 500M on a stadium. And that is todays cost for a stadium. How much will a stadium cost say 10 years from now?? But by talking about this at worst Montreal will probably get a minor league team at some point. If they never get anything more than that so what? At least it brings some form of baseball back to the town with the Jackie Robinson history and that is a good thing. I don't think baseball should be totally left to die in Montreal which is going to happen without at least some form of ball.
|
|
|
Post by wolfmannick on Aug 13, 2012 0:38:37 GMT -6
I think Toronto is trying to bring their minor league affiliate in Las Vegas to Montreal from something I read earlier I'll try to find the link. hey, you have to start somewhere. As of right now only the Rays and Athletics are in some kind of trouble and even that isn't saying much because if the Athletics move, they will be staying in California by the way of San Jose. can Montreal support the MLB again, well a minor league affiliate's success would sure help say it can. But yes, it is a very long ways away.
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 13, 2012 1:31:47 GMT -6
I think Toronto is trying to bring their minor league affiliate in Las Vegas to Montreal from something I read earlier I'll try to find the link. hey, you have to start somewhere. As of right now only the Rays and Athletics are in some kind of trouble and even that isn't saying much because if the Athletics move, they will be staying in California by the way of San Jose. can Montreal support the MLB again, well a minor league affiliate's success would sure help say it can. But yes, it is a very long ways away. I think they were trying to bring their minor league team to Ottawa. That might have fallen through but I'm not sure. There was talk a few years ago about the Jays playing a spring training game in Montreal but it never happened. I don't see Oakland moving outside the bay area but the whole saga is going to be drawn out longer than the Coyotes fisaco. Baseballs blue ribbon panel has been working on a solution for 3 years and they aren't even close to finding one. I hope the A's stay. They have a long history in the bay area. With a new stadium in San Jose they'd probably be a top 10 team in the league. That's why the Giants are fighting a San Jose move so hard. Even if somehow they stayed in Oakland with a new stadium they'd probably be a mid market team at worst. If a team did move I'd think it would be Tampa. Unlike Oakland it's going to take a ton of public $$ to build a new stadium since it's a small market. San Jose was going to be 100% private except for a land donation. A new ballpark will have to be retractable roof because of the rain and humidity in Florida. The Marlins retractable roof ballpark cost $637M. The Rays have no history and the attendance is shocking bad compare to any other current team historically. Tampa is basically in the same spot Montreal was. They play in an ugly dome that is poorly located far away from the population base. You know there is an interesting statistic. In the history of major league baseball every single city that lost a team eventually got a team back. Milwaukee lost the Braves, got the Brewers Seattle lost the Pilots got the M's Kansas City lost the Athletics got the Royals. Washington lost a team twice and got the Nationals
|
|
|
Post by wolfmannick on Aug 13, 2012 1:48:14 GMT -6
^ The problem with the League's in North America being the size they are is there aren't a lot of places to put teams when one market fails. Hockey has Quebec and Southern Ontario, beyond that there isn't much. basketball has Seattle and possibly Montreal if there is a potiential fanbase there. Football has LA and possibly London, unlikely but possible, Toronto is a longshot. But baseball has nowhere to put teams. That could be why they are fighting so hard to keep teams where they are and their history of relocating teams could be why no one is building ball parks. Don't expect a lot of relocations and expansions in sports in the future because there aren't places to put teams.
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 13, 2012 20:14:24 GMT -6
^+1 Since 1990 there have been 20 expansions in the major sports leagues and 14 relocations if I'm counting correctly. Almost all the sports leagues are taped out except the few cases you mentioned. NFL has 32 teams the other 3 leagues have 30 teams each. They got just about every possible city covered that is worth covering. I'd add Seattle to your list for NHL and Vancouver to the NBA list for possible teams at some point in the future though both places could possibly be crushing failures. I'd put a X2 new to LA also because LA is going to get 2 teams when the NFL comes back. The league is requiring any new stadium to be capable of hosting 2 teams. What makes it so tuff for baseball is that besides the lack of salary cap is that the season is 81 home games compare to the 41 for the NBA or NHL. The attendance required for each baseball game is also much higher. The league average has been 30,000-32,000 the past 9 years. NBA/NHL only requires 17,000 some a game to be at league average. Think how many teams would go under if the NHL expanded to an 81 game home season and required 30,000 a game to hit league average and say 20,000-22,000 to survive. Baseball by far is the hardest sport to support. Excluding Montreal all the "best" cities left for baseball are in the low 2 millions which would make them smaller than almost every market other than Milwaukee. Cities like Portland, Orlando and Sacramento are actually smaller than the population they have even because they have far less corporations than say a city like Milwaukee, Cleveland or Pittsburgh. A Vancouver team would have to compete with hockey which would make it impossible. One of the biggest reasons the current small markets like a Pittsburgh, Cleveland and Cincinnati can make it is those places have a long history and love of baseball. Those teams have been around since the 1800's. It's different to drop a team into a similar small sized city without that type of history(see Tampa Bay).
|
|
|
Post by wolfmannick on Aug 13, 2012 20:57:11 GMT -6
^ I'm not sure about LA getting 2 teams before they even get one. Other than the Chargers I can't think of any teams that are in dire straits and about to relocate. The Bills aren't great, and if they do move I'm sure they will make plans to move the team to Toronto (Seems like a reasonable conclusion that the Buffalo-Toronto series was put in place in case the team had to move, that the NFL established a fanbase in Canada for the team.) But yeah other than what you said I can't think of any other places to put a team. Hopefully after Phoenix is dealt with, Columbus can make a fanbase, and the new owner in Dallas fixes the situation there. Then florida can move to Southern Ontario and the League should be good for a bit.
|
|
|
Post by mikecubs on Aug 13, 2012 21:25:33 GMT -6
^ I'm not sure about LA getting 2 teams before they even get one. Other than the Chargers I can't think of any teams that are in dire straits and about to relocate. The Bills aren't great, and if they do move I'm sure they will make plans to move the team to Toronto (Seems like a reasonable conclusion that the Buffalo-Toronto series was put in place in case the team had to move, that the NFL established a fanbase in Canada for the team.) But yeah other than what you said I can't think of any other places to put a team. Hopefully after Phoenix is dealt with, Columbus can make a fanbase, and the new owner in Dallas fixes the situation there. Then florida can move to Southern Ontario and the League should be good for a bit. You forgot about the Oakland Raiders, St. Louis Rams and possible the Jacksonville Jaguars. Oakland plays in a stone age stadium and it's unlikely Oakland can afford a new one. It's more than possible they move into the New Santa Clara Stadium with the 49ers though. St. Louis negotiated the worst stadium/arena deal of all time(outside of Glendale). The city gave the team an option after 15 years to leave if the stadium wasn't in the top tier of NFL stadiums. The city is willing to renovate the stadium for 124 million with the Rams paying 52%. The team says that isn't good enough and they need a 700M renovation. sports.yahoo.com/news/rams-proposal-upgrade-dome-rejected-142555525--nfl.htmlJacksonville has a long term lease but they can get out of it if they can prove they lost money 3 years in a row at any point. No NFL team loses money but maybe if you hired the right accountants and cooked the books.... Jacksonville says they are staying but they are always in LA relocation rumors. Buffalo won't be going anywhere soon. They will get a renovation. Long term if they moved it probably would be Toronto. No way does that area go without an NFL team. Too many people. The reason the series was played in Toronto the past few years is Rogers wants an NFL team. But also the reason the Bills did it was to try and make Toronto part of their territory and turn the team into a regional team. They were trying to make Toronto into what Milwaukee is to the Green Bay Packers.
|
|
|
Post by wolfmannick on Aug 13, 2012 21:41:19 GMT -6
My main concern is what affect the NFL in Toronto would have on the CFL, and wether a NFL team there could survive long term. Attendance isn't great for the Argos and I don't think the Bills have sold out in their Toronto games. Skydome would have to sell out everygame to support the NFL from a report I read a couple years ago. And with the NFL in Toronto, the Ti-Cats, Argos (Prolly would just fold) and the new Ottawa team would all suffer, what would happen to the rest of the CFL? Then if the Toronto NFL team folds, what happens next. Seems like a lot of big risks for small gain if the NFL expands into Canada.
|
|
|
Post by slippy on Aug 13, 2012 21:56:53 GMT -6
^ if the entire CFL eventually collapses because Toronto, by some miracle, got an NFL team, then the CFL wasn't even worth saving in the first place.
|
|