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Post by wolfmannick on Jun 6, 2012 16:13:44 GMT -6
Just a place to discuss other relocation rumours in different leagues. For example do you think other Canadian cities large enough to host a second team such as Vancouver or Montreal will get a MLB or NBA team in the near future? There are enough teams in those leagues doing poorly enough to merit an argument in favour of it. What do you guys think?
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phreload
Alternate Captain "A"
Section 307 - Row 10 - Seat 4
Posts: 569
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Post by phreload on Jun 6, 2012 17:27:33 GMT -6
All I know is Vancouver+NBA=fail
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phreload
Alternate Captain "A"
Section 307 - Row 10 - Seat 4
Posts: 569
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Post by phreload on Jun 6, 2012 17:28:30 GMT -6
TrueNorthJets wants a team for Winkler, I'll support that....
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Post by wolfmannick on Jun 6, 2012 21:20:07 GMT -6
I could see another MLB team working in either Van or MTL what do u guys think?
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Post by wolfmannick on Jun 8, 2012 20:58:35 GMT -6
Wellmaybe this will be a more active debate after the Return of the Nordiques is complete lol.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 1:21:49 GMT -6
All I know is Vancouver+NBA=fail I checked your calculations on this and it is correct.
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Post by wolfmannick on Jun 9, 2012 14:11:49 GMT -6
What about MLB? I heard that Vancouver and Montreal were somewhat being considered for relocation candidates for the Tampa Bay Rays.
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Post by Lions67 on Jun 9, 2012 17:32:24 GMT -6
Vancouver wont support an MLB team. Vancouver right now is in LOVE with the Canucks and the Whitecaps. plus, baseball is boring. the NBA wont be back in Vancouver anytime soon either. If that region gets NBA, its going back to Seattle, not Lotusland.
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Post by wolfmannick on Jun 14, 2012 22:48:25 GMT -6
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Post by cheswick on Jun 25, 2012 14:07:13 GMT -6
I've heard some talk recently about the NBA in Vancouver again but don't think it's likely. There is appetite for baseball in montreal. If the big leagues comign to Canada I'd put the likelihood as
1. MLB in Montreal 2. NBA in Vancouver 3. NFL in Toronto.
Outisde that not much. I'd like to see a wider soccer reach in the country. I know Ottawa is getting an NASL (tier below the MLS) team in a few years, hopefully Edmontona nd Calgary could follow suit and ofcourse Winnipeg too.
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Post by jetsv2 on Jun 25, 2012 22:00:05 GMT -6
Toronto will not get an NFL team, the attendance for the Buffalo game in Toronto was really bad last year. The NFL has many places within the USA that they would look at going before they ever looked seriously at Toronto.
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Post by Jetsfan47 on Jun 25, 2012 22:47:36 GMT -6
Toronto will not get an NFL team, the attendance for the Buffalo game in Toronto was really bad last year. The NFL has many places within the USA that they would look at going before they ever looked seriously at Toronto. Like L.A.
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Post by mikecubs on Jun 25, 2012 23:12:10 GMT -6
Toronto will not get an NFL team, the attendance for the Buffalo game in Toronto was really bad last year. The NFL has many places within the USA that they would look at going before they ever looked seriously at Toronto. The attendance last year for the Toronto game was 51,579. Not bad. Buffalo is even going extend the Toronto series. But you guys are right. The NFL is NOT coming to Toronto any time soon. Next 2 teams in trouble(San Diego/Oakland) are going to LA if they move. As long as Buffalo is around Toronto is not getting a team. Buffalo is trying to make Toronto a "colony" of Buffalo due to Buffalo being a small market. The only way Toronto could get a team would be Buffalo moving to Toronto fulltime. Buffalo is about to sign a 10 year lease extension in exchange for a renovation at Ralph Wilson Stadium. Maybe in 10 years a move could happen because Buffalo's stadium was built in 1973. In 10 years time a new owner for sure would demand a new stadium and I find it hard to believe a dying rust belt city like Buffalo could afford a billion dollar stadium but a move to Toronto is at least 10 years off. Toronto would also have to come up with a stadium. The NFL is on record as saying Rogers Centre is not big enough capacity wise(only 54,000) for an NFL team. As far as other US markets go once LA is taken the NFL is out of viable markets. Other than Toronto the only place that gets talked about is London England. They have a modern stadium and the NFL plays 1 regular season London game that sells out. Roger Goodall is on record saying they are considering a London team.
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Post by mikecubs on Jun 25, 2012 23:58:52 GMT -6
As far as other sports go I think within 10-15 years the NBA goes back to Vancouver. David Stern has called Vancouver his "biggest regret" as commissioner. Vancouver probably isn't big enough for the NBA yet only 2.3 million people. The smallest NBA/NHL market is Denver at 3.15 million. In 10-15 years given present growth rates Vancouver will be about the size Denver currently is. Vancouver has an NBA ready arena so the only thing missing is some more population growth and perhaps interest in the NBA. That's why I think the return of the Grizzlies will happen some day but not soon.
Currently there are NOT a lot of struggling teams in the NBA right now. The new CBA is very owner friendly. The only ones that qualify are Sacramento and Milwaukee due to bad arenas and Memphis(they were just sold). New Orleans would also qualify as a struggling team but the state gave them a subsidy to stay until 2024 so they don't count. The next team that does move is going to Seattle.
For baseball again there are NOT many struggling teams. MLB attendance is booming and local TV deals are exploding. Even for small and mid markets. Check out Seattle and San Diego's new TV deals. The Washington Nationals TV deal is about to triple. Even teams like Pittsburgh and Kansas City make money. Baseball has been the most stable sport by far in terms of franchise movement. Since 1972 there has been only 1 relocation. That's right 1 relocation for a sport without a salary cap. That is a great record!
The only teams in trouble are Oakland(due to a bad stadium and the San Francisco Giants blocking a move to San Jose) and Tampa Bay(bad stadium and questionable interest anyway). Baseball is out of markets to move to due to expansion of the 90's. If Tampa or Oakland did have to move and Montreal was interested the would be 0 US competition for them. Portland, San Antonio and Vegas would be the leading "contenders" in the US.
However a return of MLB to Montreal is unlikely. Montreal hardly drew well even before the 94 strike. The attendance fall off didn't begin after 94 like many think but it started in 1984. I know Olympic Stadium was horrific but even with a nice new retro park downtown could a Montreal team draw? Especially since it would still be a small market team that would lose popular players to the Yankees/red sox etc.
Another problem is I can't see a 500M dollar new stadium passing. Being a small market team the city and province would have to pay for most of the stadium. Small market teams do NOT privately fund their own stadiums in MLB. The team couldn't afford it. Given how ugly it ended for the Expos 1.0 and how little people cared at the end if they announced they are giving away 500M to MLB I think there would be blood in the streets.
Overall I don't see Montreal as very likely. Baseball was never that popular to begin with even pre 94 in Montreal except for 5 years in the early 80s. With the way it ended the last 7 years, the strike etc... I think the market is too scorched to ever try again. I think the average Montrealer not only doesn't care much for baseball but absolutely hates baseball with a passion. I don't think MLB wants to return either. One reason you can't rule out Montreal 100% is because 3.8 million people is more than enough to support a team demographically.
There were rumors last summer of a group being interested in returning MLB but there has been nothing since. If the government did want to go through with a new stadium and there was an owner and league interest I would require a ticket drive making stadium construction contingent on having enough interest. I wouldn't build a stadium for 500M on the "build it and they will come" philosophy. That's how mistakes like Glendale get made.
For sure MLB will never go to Vancouver. Vancouver would be the 3rd smallest market in a sport without a cap. MLB would reject BC Place. MLB likes retro parks not multipurpose stadiums. Vancouver just spent 500 M??? on that new roof for BC place so they are not going to fund a new MLB park. Another problem is a new park in the Pacific Northwest would require a retractable roof like Safeco Field in Seattle. That would add another 200M to the cost of a stadium.
For NBA to Montreal I'd love to see it, they have everything needed(the arena/no need for a public handout, the demographics) but I'm sure there is little interest unfortunately. If there ever was the interest David Stern would put a team in Montreal faster than you can snap your fingers.
Overall my likelyhood on teams moving is 1.Vancouver(nba)- good odds 10-15 years 2.Toronto(NFL) so-so odds for a team in 10 years 3.Montreal(MLB)- Long shot 4.Montreal(NBA)- almost no shot but that could change if interest was shown to a slam dunk 5.Vancouver(MLB)- Not a chance in hell
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Post by Dcmac on Jun 26, 2012 1:10:46 GMT -6
I actually think an MLB team in Vancouver could potentially work. Seattle loves playing the Jays at home because the Jays bring tons of paying fans from Vancouver. Back around the time the Jays won the championship two years in a row they played an exhibition game (might have been more than one, I dunno) against the Mariners in Vancouver. It drew a huge crowd. If the Rays were to move to a Canadian city, I'm positive it would be in Vancouver before Montreal. Anybody that followed the Expos knew that barring some exceptions, attendance there was god awful. The team was abysmal and they got absolutely screwed over in the short season of 94. I don't know if people would take kindly to the MLB again. If the Rays were to move to a Canadian city though, it would give me even more reason to love them.
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