|
Post by lenny on Sept 27, 2017 11:04:57 GMT -6
Funny thing is about some of the posters here stating the kneeling regarding the national anthem being ok and respectful is directly contrary to what the NFL Operations Manual requires of its players: "The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.time.com/4955704/nfl-league-rulebook-a62-63-national-anthem-rule/The FACT that the NFL doesn't have the guts 'MAY" to actually fine for these behaviours is a testament to the gutless way the NFL is run when it comes time to insulting the preponderence of it's paid customer base. I find it curious that posters who I assume are hard working people do NOT believe that it is OK to abrogate a rule of their employer requiring them to do such and such particularly when that rule is for the presumed betterment of the business? Unless you believe in anti-social behaviour while you're being employed.Pathetic. Therefore. Again. Wheeler! This has nothing to do with the Constitution and everything to do with following diligently the requirements of your employer.
|
|
|
Post by phillymike on Sept 27, 2017 11:36:25 GMT -6
It means something different to everyone. We are lucky to live in a society where this discussion can happen. It's unfortunate that lots have delved into: It's my opinion and it's the only one that matters!! You are wrong and a horrible person!!
|
|
|
Post by Grumpz on Sept 27, 2017 11:49:02 GMT -6
Using the Anthem to protest, and it being about the anthem are 2 entirely different things. The knee while the Anthem is playing is saying, "there is something wrong in this country, and it needs to be adressed", not "the US sucks". Just a guess, but the day you per capita, have as many black cops killing white unarmed citizens and getting away with it, as you do the other way around, is the day these protestors may stand down. We all say what happened to Rodney King. Just imagine 4 or 5 black cops whaling away on some white dude, and walking away Scott free. Ya, that'll happen. I will not debate racism with you...there is no place for it and you quoting statistics does not drive that home any more. Racism is wrong and it should not exist. You miss the simple logic of protesting. Remember Tienanmen Square back in 1989? Protesting was not legal and people died. That is not the case in the US. It is not the case because we live in a democratic society. We live in a Democratic society because we fought hard for it and many people lost their lives. The flag stands for that symbol of freedom and people fought and died for the flag. The flag and the anthem are inextricably linked. That is why large flags fly when the anthem is performed. Listen to the Star Bangled Banner words - "yet our flag was still there". Kneeling during an anthem is therefore hypocritical. They, therefore, have no right to protest using the anthem. They can protest any other time and any other way within the confines of the law. Actually, not being allowed or ridiculed or verbally assaulted for kneeling, is hypocritical. Wars were fought to remain a democracy, and I'd say, a more civil society. That is exactly WHY people should be allowed to protest in this manner.
|
|
|
Post by andyvette on Sept 27, 2017 14:34:02 GMT -6
You know, As a Canadian the thought would never even occur to me not to stand for the anthem of ours or theirs. We may boo but we will always stand even for the other country. Maybe that's just the Canadian in me or the morals my parents (From Holland) instilled in me.
|
|
|
Post by Grumpz on Sept 27, 2017 14:53:19 GMT -6
You know, As a Canadian the thought would never even occur to me not to stand for the anthem of ours or theirs. We may boo but we will always stand even for the other country. Maybe that's just the Canadian in me or the morals my parents (From Holland) instilled in me. It's hard to say, but what if Canadians treated the Dutch like garbage?
|
|
|
Post by lenny on Sept 27, 2017 16:42:36 GMT -6
You know, As a Canadian the thought would never even occur to me not to stand for the anthem of ours or theirs. We may boo but we will always stand even for the other country. Maybe that's just the Canadian in me or the morals my parents (From Holland) instilled in me. It's hard to say, but what if Canadians treated the Dutch like garbage? Well now that you mentioned the Dutch they oppressed blacks in South Africa since the middle of the 17th century with slavery (which was more brutal than in the US) and all other manner of lordship.It took the Brits to intervene in the early 19th century to declare an end to slavery there. Like it took a Republican in the 19th century to declare an end to slavery in the US despite the fact the Democrats fought hard to keep it. But that's a small detail. More importantly Mandela helped create the TRC. The point of all this? Time to create rather than complain on the eternal grievance train. If these pampered players would have formed their own TRC and went to Chicago and mediated between the homies because despite being run by Democratic mayors for years the rate of black on black crime there principally murder is horrific. But that would take actual HEROISM instead of the political postering for the pampered millionaire players. Maybe they can, for the next posturing, all feign taking a p!ss like a dog and then raising their fist in black power. Oh wait. Odell Beckham already did that.
|
|
|
Post by Tommy on Sept 27, 2017 16:43:51 GMT -6
Besides respect for the flag and anthem, there has to be respect for the police. In all the recent cases of killing of unarmed men, they initially chose not to follow police commands. Some of these progressed and resulted in criminal acts by police. But had they immediately followed police orders all would have survived.
|
|
|
Post by sportmentary2012 on Sept 27, 2017 16:57:38 GMT -6
Besides respect for the flag and anthem, there has to be respect for the police. In all the recent cases of killing of unarmed men, they initially chose not to follow police commands. Some of these progressed and resulted in criminal acts by police. But had they immediately followed police orders all would have survived. That is a slippery argument. talk to anyone of colour in the States and they will tell you what it is like to be profiled by the cops. They are people too with their own thoughts, ideas and experiences and if it wasn't for the issues that African Americans are having with police brutality Mr. Capernick would not have felt the need to 'sit' for the anthem and then be convinced (by a fellow teammate and former Navy Seal) that 'sitting' was disrespectful but kneeling would not be. I firmly believe Trump should have stayed out of this and let the league deal with it. I don't recall what Obama's take was on this situation but then again he was on the other extreme of Trump and played to those who buttered his political bread. trump may be new to politics but he knows where his support is and this was not done to resolve the issue that has caused the PEACEFUL protest but rather to stir up his supporters and keep them pacified while he flip flops on certain promises he made to them. Unfortunately, he stirs the pot and leaves some of us with 'water cooler talk' and is setting Civil rights back decades because those who are racist, anti-Semitic, homophobic and misogynistic feel that if the President can be so blunt and reckless with his words then they can also follow suit.
|
|
|
Post by lenny on Sept 27, 2017 17:07:01 GMT -6
Using the Anthem to protest, and it being about the anthem are 2 entirely different things. The knee while the Anthem is playing is saying, "there is something wrong in this country, and it needs to be adressed", not "the US sucks". Just a guess, but the day you per capita, have as many black cops killing white unarmed citizens and getting away with it, as you do the other way around, is the day these protestors may stand down. We all say what happened to Rodney King. Just imagine 4 or 5 black cops whaling away on some white dude, and walking away Scott free. Ya, that'll happen. I will not debate racism with you...there is no place for it and you quoting statistics does not drive that home any more. Racism is wrong and it should not exist. You miss the simple logic of protesting. Remember Tienanmen Square back in 1989? Protesting was not legal and people died. That is not the case in the US. It is not the case because we live in a democratic society. We live in a Democratic society because we fought hard for it and many people lost their lives. The flag stands for that symbol of freedom and people fought and died for the flag. The flag and the anthem are inextricably linked. That is why large flags fly when the anthem is performed. Listen to the Star Bangled Banner words - "yet our flag was still there". Kneeling during an anthem is therefore hypocritical. They, therefore, have no right to protest using the anthem. They can protest any other time and any other way within the confines of the law. I already debunked this claim he made as he stated he wasn't concerned with stats don't know why he is now inventing them. I'll quote the stats again: Whites are 62% of the population and blacks 13% in the USA. Half of the police killings are white and a quarter are black but when you factor in that blacks commit proportionately far more of the crime, one study on felonies - 330 per 100,000 for whites and 1,178 per 100,000 for blacks it is not surprising. Their interaction with police re felony offences is almost 4 times higher than whites. Further as well Police Aren’t Targeting and Killing Black MenRead more at: www.nationalreview.com/article/449505/police-shootings-black-men-race-not-reason-causal-effect
|
|
|
Post by Grumpz on Sept 27, 2017 17:19:57 GMT -6
Besides respect for the flag and anthem, there has to be respect for the police. In all the recent cases of killing of unarmed men, they initially chose not to follow police commands. Some of these progressed and resulted in criminal acts by police. But had they immediately followed police orders all would have survived. Generally speaking, cops are not trained to shoot unarmed people in the back. They are trained to use stopping force when threatened, yes. These are the situations the African Americans have issue with. Not the gang bangin homey waiving an uzi, the shot in the back, then the cop placing something near the body, to make it look like they were concealing a weapon. More to the point, even if the officer is found guilty of this or that, it does nothing for the deceased or their family. The incidents need to stop
|
|
|
Post by Grumpz on Sept 27, 2017 17:33:56 GMT -6
I will not debate racism with you...there is no place for it and you quoting statistics does not drive that home any more. Racism is wrong and it should not exist. You miss the simple logic of protesting. Remember Tienanmen Square back in 1989? Protesting was not legal and people died. That is not the case in the US. It is not the case because we live in a democratic society. We live in a Democratic society because we fought hard for it and many people lost their lives. The flag stands for that symbol of freedom and people fought and died for the flag. The flag and the anthem are inextricably linked. That is why large flags fly when the anthem is performed. Listen to the Star Bangled Banner words - "yet our flag was still there". Kneeling during an anthem is therefore hypocritical. They, therefore, have no right to protest using the anthem. They can protest any other time and any other way within the confines of the law. I already debunked this claim he made as he stated he wasn't concerned with stats don't know why he is now inventing them. I'll quote the stats again: Whites are 62% of the population and blacks 13% in the USA. Half of the police killings are white and a quarter are black but when you factor in that blacks commit proportionately far more of the crime, one study on felonies - 330 per 100,000 for whites and 1,178 per 100,000 for blacks it is not surprising. Their interaction with police re felony offences is almost 4 times higher than whites. Further as well Police Aren’t Targeting and Killing Black MenRead more at: www.nationalreview.com/article/449505/police-shootings-black-men-race-not-reason-causal-effectTo be clear, Kaepernick started taking the knee due to the shootings of unarmed African Americans. You can quote all you want, heck I even read the article. The protest is about unarmed people being killed. I've never said black individuals are being targeted, no one in here has, and that isn't the why the protest continues to gain momentum.
|
|
|
Post by lenny on Sept 27, 2017 17:54:32 GMT -6
I already debunked this claim he made as he stated he wasn't concerned with stats don't know why he is now inventing them. I'll quote the stats again: Whites are 62% of the population and blacks 13% in the USA. Half of the police killings are white and a quarter are black but when you factor in that blacks commit proportionately far more of the crime, one study on felonies - 330 per 100,000 for whites and 1,178 per 100,000 for blacks it is not surprising. Their interaction with police re felony offences is almost 4 times higher than whites. Further as well Police Aren’t Targeting and Killing Black MenRead more at: www.nationalreview.com/article/449505/police-shootings-black-men-race-not-reason-causal-effectTo be clear, Kaepernick started taking the knee due to the shootings of unarmed African Americans. You can quote all you want, heck I even read the article. The protest is about unarmed people being killed. I've never said black individuals are being targeted, no one in here has, and that isn't the why the protest continues to gain momentum. It was premised on BLM and the Ferguson shooting. That is, it was premised on the myth and lie of "Hands up, don’t shoot’. So then you think it's ok that his whole premise was built on a lie perpetrated by BLM? The lie was effectively debunked by two Department of Justice Investigations undertaken under Obama. That did not stop the exploiters. Now listen. Instead of getting hysterical since police shoot unarmed white people at a very high rate as well, as I quoted several recent cases to you (given the almost 4 times higher crime rates for black for felony offences it is alarming) why doesn't everyone concentrate on proper policing and instruction? I'll tell you why. Race exploitation, a grievance culture and the lack of personal responsibility.
|
|
|
Post by lenny on Sept 27, 2017 18:07:37 GMT -6
I already debunked this claim he made as he stated he wasn't concerned with stats don't know why he is now inventing them. I'll quote the stats again: Whites are 62% of the population and blacks 13% in the USA. Half of the police killings are white and a quarter are black but when you factor in that blacks commit proportionately far more of the crime, one study on felonies - 330 per 100,000 for whites and 1,178 per 100,000 for blacks it is not surprising. Their interaction with police re felony offences is almost 4 times higher than whites. Further as well Police Aren’t Targeting and Killing Black MenRead more at: www.nationalreview.com/article/449505/police-shootings-black-men-race-not-reason-causal-effectTo be clear, Kaepernick started taking the knee due to the shootings of unarmed African Americans. You can quote all you want, heck I even read the article. The protest is about unarmed people being killed. I've never said black individuals are being targeted, no one in here has, and that isn't the why the protest continues to gain momentum. Oh so I guess you missed this comment by yourself:'Just a guess, but the day you per capita, have as many black cops killing white unarmed citizens and getting away with it, as you do the other way around, is the day these protestors may stand down.' Read more: jetshockeyforum.proboards.com/thread/7597/liberal-politics-ruining-sports?page=4#ixzz4tvYatGX3
|
|
|
Post by Grumpz on Sept 27, 2017 18:21:23 GMT -6
To be clear, Kaepernick started taking the knee due to the shootings of unarmed African Americans. You can quote all you want, heck I even read the article. The protest is about unarmed people being killed. I've never said black individuals are being targeted, no one in here has, and that isn't the why the protest continues to gain momentum. Oh so I guess you missed this comment by yourself:'Just a guess, but the day you per capita, have as many black cops killing white unarmed citizens and getting away with it, as you do the other way around, is the day these protestors may stand down.' Read more: jetshockeyforum.proboards.com/thread/7597/liberal-politics-ruining-sports?page=4#ixzz4tvYatGX3As I said, just a guess. I can't speak for protesters. However a quick google search can and will provide what you are looking for. For instance. In 2015, 30% of black men killed by by police, were unarmed, compared to 21% of white men. mappingpoliceviolence.orgSounds to me like you don't believe racism exists it's fabricated, and for that reason, I'm bowing out.
|
|
|
Post by lenny on Sept 27, 2017 18:24:57 GMT -6
As I said, just a guess. I can't speak for protesters. However a quick google search can and will provide what you are looking for. For instance. In 2015, 30% of black men killed by by police, were unarmed, compared to 21% of white men. mappingpoliceviolence.orgSounds to me like you don't believe racism exists it's fabricated, and for that reason, I'm bowing out. Again, you forgot that they commit almost 4 times the crime for felonies. If that's the case whites are severely overrepresented in this category. Lol. Try again. The stats aren't helping you.
|
|