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Post by gobombersgo on Jun 14, 2023 10:10:59 GMT -6
Huston we have have a situation? Pretty boy issues Sucky baby issues like don't want to play hockey in a cold climate? After watching the Vegas series im thinking these NHL players are not as all talented as we all think they are? Senior hockey players many of them from good ole Manitoba basking in the self anoiting of grossley overpaid Sensationalism? Manitoba born players with some skill but in really good physical shape are as good as any player from around the globe? Are they worth millions of dollars? We don't see them shopping at the dollars stores? Sick illusions? Doctor evils voice Rrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiight.....
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Post by honeybadger on Jun 14, 2023 10:29:47 GMT -6
Putting the puck in the net equals 9 million dollar contract rrrrrrriiiiight all for entertainment nothing more?
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Post by grumpy on Jun 14, 2023 11:45:01 GMT -6
Helle wants to win and win soon. Understandable of course. He doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild as he'll likely be on the downhill side of his career. Again, understandable. However, even he must see that keeping PLD, Wheeler, and Scheif won't get him closer to a cup. Now if the vast majority of the team stays and IF Chevy replaces the 3 subversives with some quality hard nose players and adds a decent defenceman then maybe the team plays like the coaches want. It was a successful run while they did for a while. So if it's a retool and it brings success then maybe Helle sees he's got just as much of a chance to win here. There is absolutely NO guarantee that he gets traded to a team that's a bona fide cup contender. If it all falls apart there's always the trade deadline where someone will overpay to get his services. Would of Hellebuyck outplayed Brossitt and Hill in the Vegas run? The Jets were under-gunned with Ehlers missing and Mark Stone coming back rested BUT Hellebuyck was not up to his expected level. Had he played like his limited 5 games the Knights would have not made it to the finals. The sweet spot for the Hellebuyck being trade is a team that making to the playoffs would be a good season. Buffalo, Ottawa, Columbus, Vancouver, Calgary and the Jets are in that group. The teams that think he wins them 2-3 round in the playoffs should stay away. The only really good teams that should be tempted is Edmonton or Toronto but they are not going to win with Hasek/Curtis Joesph tandem.
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Post by lenny on Jun 14, 2023 12:22:39 GMT -6
The take-away I got from Vegas and their run, going through no less than 5 goalies ending really with Hill for the entirety of the Panther series and part of Edmonton, was that you don't necessarily need a Vezina goalie. You do need a goalie who is competent and hot enough in the playoffs but the bottom line was that Vegas had 4 good lines just like they had when they beat the Jets in the Western Finals a few years ago.
They had speed; they had an incredible buy in when they lost possession of the puck they were disciplined to get back and flood their defensive zone and constantly present obstructions and shot blocking which made clean shot making by the Panthers extremely difficult. This was not a neutral zone trap but a defensive zone trap. Turnovers were inevitable which always created problems for the Panthers. Plus Panthers PK was not good.
I have to say Maurice was outcoached again. Panthers could not run with Vegas that was clear the first game. Maurice for the most part ran 3 lines and he thought the status quo was his winning formula i. e. his strategy remained the same. Irony would have been more successful here: he should have employed the same strategy Gallant did to his superior run and gun team in the Western final: neutral zone trap and play for turnovers. He didn't and allowed a a 4 line team with superior speed and puck handling to beat him.
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Post by Tracker on Jun 14, 2023 12:35:48 GMT -6
The take-away I got from Vegas and their run, going through no less than 5 goalies ending really with Hill for the entirety of the Panther series and part of Edmonton, was that you don't necessarily need a Vezina goalie. You do need a goalie who is competent and hot enough in the playoffs but the bottom line was that Vegas had 4 good lines just like they had when they beat the Jets in the Western Finals a few years ago. They had speed; they had an incredible buy in when they lost possession of the puck they were disciplined to get back and flood their defensive zone and constantly present obstructions and shot blocking which made clean shot making by the Panthers extremely difficult. This was not a neutral zone trap but a defensive zone trap. Turnovers were inevitable which always created problems for the Panthers. Plus Panthers PK was not good. I have to say Maurice was outcoached again. Panthers could not run with Vegas that was clear the first game. Maurice for the most part ran 3 lines and he thought the status quo was his winning formula i. e. his strategy remained the same. Irony would have been more successful here: he should have employed the same strategy Gallant did to his superior run and gun team in the Western final: neutral zone trap and play for turnovers. He didn't and allowed a a 4 line team with superior speed and puck handling to beat him. Maurice did the best he could with what he had and did pretty well. Tkachuk played injured the whole series and finally gave in when he suffered a cracked sternum and unable to even tie his skates. The reality is that the Panthers overcame much tougher adversaries than the Knights and their physical play wore them down as well. Their talent was not as good as the Knights, either.
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Post by gobombersgo on Jun 14, 2023 13:37:23 GMT -6
Putting the puck in the net equals 9 million dollar contract rrrrrrriiiiight all for entertainment nothing more? That's sports. Curry gets 48 million to shoot a ball. Ohtani gets 70 million to throw and hit a ball. Don't like it, dont watch it.
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Post by sgtbarnes on Jun 14, 2023 14:00:23 GMT -6
Huston we have have a situation? Pretty boy issues Sucky baby issues like don't want to play hockey in a cold climate? After watching the Vegas series im thinking these NHL players are not as all talented as we all think they are? Senior hockey players many of them from good ole Manitoba basking in the self anoiting of grossley overpaid Sensationalism? Manitoba born players with some skill but in really good physical shape are as good as any player from around the globe? Are they worth millions of dollars? We don't see them shopping at the dollars stores? Sick illusions? Don't know dude. I'm pretty sure aliens have something to do with this whole thing. They're among us. Maybe some of the GMs and players are not of this world? Bettman looks part lizard to me. A vast global conspiracy is afoot.
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Post by honeybadger on Jun 14, 2023 15:41:23 GMT -6
You nailed it Brother haha?
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Post by lenny on Jun 14, 2023 16:32:09 GMT -6
The take-away I got from Vegas and their run, going through no less than 5 goalies ending really with Hill for the entirety of the Panther series and part of Edmonton, was that you don't necessarily need a Vezina goalie. You do need a goalie who is competent and hot enough in the playoffs but the bottom line was that Vegas had 4 good lines just like they had when they beat the Jets in the Western Finals a few years ago. They had speed; they had an incredible buy in when they lost possession of the puck they were disciplined to get back and flood their defensive zone and constantly present obstructions and shot blocking which made clean shot making by the Panthers extremely difficult. This was not a neutral zone trap but a defensive zone trap. Turnovers were inevitable which always created problems for the Panthers. Plus Panthers PK was not good. I have to say Maurice was outcoached again. Panthers could not run with Vegas that was clear the first game. Maurice for the most part ran 3 lines and he thought the status quo was his winning formula i. e. his strategy remained the same. Irony would have been more successful here: he should have employed the same strategy Gallant did to his superior run and gun team in the Western final: neutral zone trap and play for turnovers. He didn't and allowed a a 4 line team with superior speed and puck handling to beat him. Maurice did the best he could with what he had and did pretty well. Tkachuk played injured the whole series and finally gave in when he suffered a cracked sternum and unable to even tie his skates. The reality is that the Panthers overcame much tougher adversaries than the Knights and their physical play wore them down as well. Their talent was not as good as the Knights, either. You made my point actually. He could not play straight up with Vegas given the presumed injuries. Maurice had no business thinking he could given he usually only ran three lines and the issue at least ostensibly so of injuries. It's insanity to think he could but Maurice's achilles heel played itself out again.
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Post by Ric O. on Jun 14, 2023 18:36:08 GMT -6
Yeah I agree, I don't think Maurice really tried to make any adjustments. Not that I think it would have made much of a difference against the Knights. Play it tough, play it fast, play it trap, play dump and chase, Knights seem to be able to adapt to any style. I was royally impressed with how solid they looked in just about every situation and they seemed to get stronger in every round. I thought Oilers were the only team that really came close to threatening them...if they only had a #1 goalie.
Probably only chance Panthers had was to take out a couple of key Knights players. But even then, Cassidy can just reach into his bag of clones and they probably don't miss a beat...I think they could have rolled 6 lines and 10D and you wouldn't know the weak line was out there if you didn't see the name and number on the back of the jersey.
Sure they had a major advantage in the expansion draft but boy, you look at the rank and file players, any team including the Jets would have had a chance at some of those guys. McCrimmon and his scouting staff really know how to find the type of player you still need to win in the playoffs. Kudos to them.
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Post by honeybadger on Jun 14, 2023 18:40:29 GMT -6
IF Dubois Leaves Scheif Leaves, Hellebuck leaves, Chevy is gonna turn into Frog prince because he don't know what it takes to win? Embarrasing mindset this man has compared to a Kelly Mcrimmond!
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Post by PeakyBlinders on Jun 15, 2023 9:17:20 GMT -6
From the Athletic, talking about the the NHL's Top 10 questions:
7. What will Winnipeg’s big-picture vision be after (likely) trading Dubois, Hellebuyck and Scheifele? Dubois, Hellebyck and Mark Scheifele are all expected to be dealt by Winnipeg this summer because of their respective contract situations. Blake Wheeler could be on his way out, too.
When a middling team is facing the strong possibility of losing its star goalie and top two centers all at the same time, it usually signals a rebuild. That doesn’t mean they would have to tear the entire roster down, but it would mean that making the playoffs wouldn’t be the top priority in the short term.
Eyeing the future, avoiding shortcuts and aiming to build a Cup contender over the long term would be the mission. With the correct forward-looking approach, the Dubois, Hellebuyck and Scheifele trade packages could set the Jets up nicely.
The mistake would be to try to execute a faster retool on the fly. That path would likely destine them to years of continued mediocrity.
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Post by shakinallover on Jun 15, 2023 12:34:12 GMT -6
The take-away I got from Vegas and their run, going through no less than 5 goalies ending really with Hill for the entirety of the Panther series and part of Edmonton, was that you don't necessarily need a Vezina goalie. You do need a goalie who is competent and hot enough in the playoffs but the bottom line was that Vegas had 4 good lines just like they had when they beat the Jets in the Western Finals a few years ago. They had speed; they had an incredible buy in when they lost possession of the puck they were disciplined to get back and flood their defensive zone and constantly present obstructions and shot blocking which made clean shot making by the Panthers extremely difficult. This was not a neutral zone trap but a defensive zone trap. Turnovers were inevitable which always created problems for the Panthers. Plus Panthers PK was not good. I have to say Maurice was outcoached again. Panthers could not run with Vegas that was clear the first game. Maurice for the most part ran 3 lines and he thought the status quo was his winning formula i. e. his strategy remained the same. Irony would have been more successful here: he should have employed the same strategy Gallant did to his superior run and gun team in the Western final: neutral zone trap and play for turnovers. He didn't and allowed a a 4 line team with superior speed and puck handling to beat him. Vegas plays a no gap pressure defence which is very difficult to get any offence established. They are physical but it's not necessarily bit hits. When an opposing player gets the puck one or two Knights are on him right away. They will lean and even fall on him, clutch and grab, tie up his arms so he can't make a pass. (Benn had had enough of it when he cross checked Stone). It's very frustrating when the refs have put away the whistles and let it go. Vegas always has a man up high to take away passes between D men and as soon as Vegas gets possession he breaks out and either gets a pass or drags the opposing Dmen with him. Almost always once they enter the opposing end they'll draw players to them and look for their third or fourth man entering late. You don't need elite offensive players you just have to have everyone dedicated to playing the same system. Their offensive system definately defeats the traditional trap while on defence it's very similar to the trap but with wrinkles thrown in for a quick turnover to offense. Players without the puck basically run interference and drag opposing players out of position while another Knight will skate into that open ice. Everyone bought in. They have a cup. Systems work.
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Post by Tracker on Jun 15, 2023 16:42:31 GMT -6
I still hold to the position that the person who created this mess and did not change it when it was clearly visible to all and sundry that it was badly needed is not the person to repair it. If you took you car repeatedly for 11 years and he did a mediocre job every time and got the car running only occasionally, you would take your business somewhere else.
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Post by gobombersgo on Jun 16, 2023 8:32:35 GMT -6
I still hold to the position that the person who created this mess and did not change it when it was clearly visible to all and sundry that it was badly needed is not the person to repair it. If you took you car repeatedly for 11 years and he did a mediocre job every time and got the car running only occasionally, you would take your business somewhere else. Only difference is 31 of 32 places can't get your car fully running and one that did this year, most likely won't be the same shop next year. Oh, not to mention 98% of the mechanics don't want to work for your preferred shop.
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