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Post by Grumpz on Sept 29, 2016 13:12:24 GMT -6
How does letting him rot help us? I just don't get it. A) Still leaves a huge hole to fill on the blueline. B) Keeps a negative distraction over the team. Because it opens the door for every kid that ends up in Winnipeg unhappy to say "I don't like it here so I want out" if they cave on Trouba it opens the floodgates, if they make an example of him the next guy may think a little harder! This team is here for a long time so lets not make mistakes that can hurt this team in the future. Your reasoning can only be justified If the Jets get nothing in return. If Trouba is traded for another Trouba that shoots left handed, that sends the message that we replaced you and good riddens. How is that bad? Kane's situation was identical, short of him holding out. How did that turn out? He was traded when Chevy got what he felt Kane was worth. That scenario did nothing but strengthen this teams resolve, and players perception of how things are run! Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice
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Post by Ric O. on Sept 29, 2016 16:52:42 GMT -6
Because it opens the door for every kid that ends up in Winnipeg unhappy to say "I don't like it here so I want out" if they cave on Trouba it opens the floodgates, if they make an example of him the next guy may think a little harder! This team is here for a long time so lets not make mistakes that can hurt this team in the future. Your reasoning can only be justified If the Jets get nothing in return. If Trouba is traded for another Trouba that shoots left handed, that sends the message that we replaced you and good riddens. How is that bad? Kane's situation was identical, short of him holding out. How did that turn out? He was traded when Chevy got what he felt Kane was worth. That scenario did nothing but strengthen this teams resolve, and players perception of how things are run! Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice It's bad because the next guy, let's say it's Ehlers, says trade me or I'm sitting out. In his mind he thinks back to the Trouba situation and says to himself, this is great, I get to go where I want for any reason I specify, and the team doesn't even get hurt because they'll just backfill my spot with someone else. Win-win. But that's not the reality. The team is hurt badly. GM cannot draft and develop a winning team by swapping players they scouted and chose to draft to fit into our system for players another team chose to draft for whatever their reasons were. I'm wouldn't say you're wrong at all because I see where there is merit to getting the situation behind you and removing the distraction asap...but I'm also kind of astonished that you think this all makes for a victimless situation and isn't possible if not likely to set a dangerous precedence if you just cave to the demand or do your utmost to accommodate it.
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Post by Grumpz on Sept 29, 2016 17:06:41 GMT -6
Your reasoning can only be justified If the Jets get nothing in return. If Trouba is traded for another Trouba that shoots left handed, that sends the message that we replaced you and good riddens. How is that bad? Kane's situation was identical, short of him holding out. How did that turn out? He was traded when Chevy got what he felt Kane was worth. That scenario did nothing but strengthen this teams resolve, and players perception of how things are run! Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice It's bad because the next guy, let's say it's Ehlers, says trade me or I'm sitting out. In his mind he thinks back to the Trouba situation and says to himself, this is great, I get to go where I want for any reason I specify, and the team doesn't even get hurt because they'll just backfill my spot with someone else. Win-win. But that's not the reality. The team is hurt badly. GM cannot draft and develop a winning team by swapping players they scouted and chose to draft to fit into our system for players another team chose to draft for whatever their reasons were. I'm wouldn't say you're wrong at all because I see where there is merit to getting the situation behind you and removing the distraction asap...but I'm also kind of astonished that you think this all makes for a victimless situation and isn't possible if not likely to set a dangerous precedence if you just cave to the demand or do your utmost to accommodate it. Again, only if Chevy trades poorly. If Ehlers pulls the same stunt, and we trade for Puljujarvi, who cares? The only time this hurts is if our GM panics. As for the draft and develop, this exact scenario is why the draft and develop thing isn't full proof. Trouba dooped the jets, either intentionally or not, during the scouting interviews. It's now apparent that Trouba wasn't the best for the team, so he gets traded. If anything, the team is cleansing itself of a player who's putting himself ahead if the team. I see nothing negative about Trouba bring traded, as long as it's on the Jets terms. As I said, if Chevy panics and this results in a Hall/Larrson trade, then you guys win, and this thing whole thing will hurt. Frankly, I peg the odds at 10,000 to 1, that we aren't better off after his trade. Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice
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bcjet
Alternate Captain "A"
Posts: 566
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Post by bcjet on Sept 29, 2016 17:15:13 GMT -6
Because it opens the door for every kid that ends up in Winnipeg unhappy to say "I don't like it here so I want out" if they cave on Trouba it opens the floodgates, if they make an example of him the next guy may think a little harder! This team is here for a long time so lets not make mistakes that can hurt this team in the future. Your reasoning can only be justified If the Jets get nothing in return. If Trouba is traded for another Trouba that shoots left handed, that sends the message that we replaced you and good riddens. How is that bad? Kane's situation was identical, short of him holding out. How did that turn out? He was traded when Chevy got what he felt Kane was worth. That scenario did nothing but strengthen this teams resolve, and players perception of how things are run! Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice I still don't agree. We get an identical player in return and all is fine and dandy this time. Next time, a McDavid decides he doesn't like Winnipeg so he holds out because, hell, the Jets just flipped Trouba so he will think he deserves the same. Then what? Teams will line up sure, but how are they going to replace not only the player but the whole brand of that player. Then the Jets draft and develope model should just be thrown out the window. We are only stuck with UFAs that will play in Winnipeg, yeah, Stanley Cup 2099 look out, here we come. (yes I am being over dramatic) While I would like them to trade him and be done with this, I also want them to make a stand and do what they can from preventing this from happening. It will give future players and agents a little bit of doubt that sitting out will end up all roses. The benefit of making him sit could be priceless, but I am sure Chevy knows this as well and am sure he is trying to factor all this in his decision.
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bcjet
Alternate Captain "A"
Posts: 566
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Post by bcjet on Sept 29, 2016 17:18:07 GMT -6
I was kind of one the same lines as Ric O., I was slow typing and didn't read.
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Post by Grumpz on Sept 29, 2016 17:47:02 GMT -6
Your reasoning can only be justified If the Jets get nothing in return. If Trouba is traded for another Trouba that shoots left handed, that sends the message that we replaced you and good riddens. How is that bad? Kane's situation was identical, short of him holding out. How did that turn out? He was traded when Chevy got what he felt Kane was worth. That scenario did nothing but strengthen this teams resolve, and players perception of how things are run! Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice I still don't agree. We get an identical player in return and all is fine and dandy this time. Next time, a McDavid decides he doesn't like Winnipeg so he holds out because, hell, the Jets just flipped Trouba so he will think he deserves the same. Then what? Teams will line up sure, but how are they going to replace not only the player but the whole brand of that player. Then the Jets draft and develope model should just be thrown out the window. We are only stuck with UFAs that will play in Winnipeg, yeah, Stanley Cup 2099 look out, here we come. (yes I am being over dramatic) While I would like them to trade him and be done with this, I also want them to make a stand and do what they can from preventing this from happening. It will give future players and agents a little bit of doubt that sitting out will end up all roses. The benefit of making him sit could be priceless, but I am sure Chevy knows this as well and am sure he is trying to factor all this in his decision. Do you have any idea what the price would be if Laine holds out, after putting up 40 goals in his sophomore and 3 rd season? Sure kid, hold a gun to our heads! We'd be set for decades. Don't get me wrong, I don't like what this puke is doing, but I'm glad it's now, and not him bolting as a UFA, after building a team around him. But ya, this doesn't affect things enough that turning down offers makes sense, which is what this entire discussion is about. "Letting him rot". Chevy sent a clear message when Scheifele was signed. Trouba leaving is a good thing. It's not like the Jets are the only team this garbage happens to. Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice
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bcjet
Alternate Captain "A"
Posts: 566
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Post by bcjet on Sept 29, 2016 17:57:46 GMT -6
I still don't agree. We get an identical player in return and all is fine and dandy this time. Next time, a McDavid decides he doesn't like Winnipeg so he holds out because, hell, the Jets just flipped Trouba so he will think he deserves the same. Then what? Teams will line up sure, but how are they going to replace not only the player but the whole brand of that player. Then the Jets draft and develope model should just be thrown out the window. We are only stuck with UFAs that will play in Winnipeg, yeah, Stanley Cup 2099 look out, here we come. (yes I am being over dramatic) While I would like them to trade him and be done with this, I also want them to make a stand and do what they can from preventing this from happening. It will give future players and agents a little bit of doubt that sitting out will end up all roses. The benefit of making him sit could be priceless, but I am sure Chevy knows this as well and am sure he is trying to factor all this in his decision. Do you have any idea what the price would be if Laine holds out, after putting up 40 goals in his sophomore and 3 rd season? Sure kid, hold a gun to our heads! We'd be set for decades. Don't get me wrong, I don't like what this puke is doing, but I'm glad it's now, and not him bolting as a UFA, after building a team around him. But ya, this doesn't affect things at all. Chevy sent a clear message when Scheifele was signed. Trouba leaving is a good thing. It's not like the Jets are the only team this garbage happens to. Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice Set for decades with draft pick acquired? Then we are a revolving door with these picks. Play until their ELC is up then sitting. Kind of like tires in mud, not moving anywhere.
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Post by Grumpz on Sept 29, 2016 18:07:32 GMT -6
Do you have any idea what the price would be if Laine holds out, after putting up 40 goals in his sophomore and 3 rd season? Sure kid, hold a gun to our heads! We'd be set for decades. Don't get me wrong, I don't like what this puke is doing, but I'm glad it's now, and not him bolting as a UFA, after building a team around him. But ya, this doesn't affect things at all. Chevy sent a clear message when Scheifele was signed. Trouba leaving is a good thing. It's not like the Jets are the only team this garbage happens to. Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice Set for decades with draft pick acquired? Then we are a revolving door with these picks. Play until their ELC is up then sitting. Kind of like tires in mud, not moving anywhere. You think all we are going to get for Trouba is a pick? He's not even answering the phone for picks...and yes I know the example was Laine. The point is Chevy is looking for a swap, so until that happens, Trouba does rot. Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice
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Post by cheswick on Sept 29, 2016 18:24:32 GMT -6
Your reasoning can only be justified If the Jets get nothing in return. If Trouba is traded for another Trouba that shoots left handed, that sends the message that we replaced you and good riddens. How is that bad? Kane's situation was identical, short of him holding out. How did that turn out? He was traded when Chevy got what he felt Kane was worth. That scenario did nothing but strengthen this teams resolve, and players perception of how things are run! Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice It's bad because the next guy, let's say it's Ehlers, says trade me or I'm sitting out. In his mind he thinks back to the Trouba situation and says to himself, this is great, I get to go where I want for any reason I specify, and the team doesn't even get hurt because they'll just backfill my spot with someone else. Win-win. But that's not the reality. The team is hurt badly. GM cannot draft and develop a winning team by swapping players they scouted and chose to draft to fit into our system for players another team chose to draft for whatever their reasons were. I'm wouldn't say you're wrong at all because I see where there is merit to getting the situation behind you and removing the distraction asap...but I'm also kind of astonished that you think this all makes for a victimless situation and isn't possible if not likely to set a dangerous precedence if you just cave to the demand or do your utmost to accommodate it. In Troubas defence he isn't "sitting out". Drouin was sitting out last season. Trouble is a free agent.
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bcjet
Alternate Captain "A"
Posts: 566
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Post by bcjet on Sept 29, 2016 18:34:34 GMT -6
Ok, its really semantics. He is a restricted free agent and is choosing not to play. Yes, it is different but boils down to two brats not playing because they can't get their way.
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Post by NHLWinnipeg on Sept 29, 2016 22:44:03 GMT -6
The Jets hold Trouba's NHL rights for 4 more NHL seasons (that he plays in) or until he's 27 years old! If he doesn't play this season, it's still another 4 seasons starting next year. He can't play in the NHL other than for the NHL Jets for that time, unless he accepts a qualifying offer from another team which the Jets can match.
In other words, he has no leverage as long as the Jets are willing to let him sit. He has a lot more to lose - millions!
While the Jets need to act rationally, I do support the hard line approach of only trading Trouba if the return is fantastic (i.e., almost better than having Trouba remain with team).
I do see some value in setting the right precedent. I'm also excited if we can trade him for an excellent player that fits well with the team long term...We will have to see how it plays out, but the Jets should take their time and not make a trade out of desperation.
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Post by Tim on Sept 30, 2016 5:19:52 GMT -6
Your reasoning can only be justified If the Jets get nothing in return. If Trouba is traded for another Trouba that shoots left handed, that sends the message that we replaced you and good riddens. How is that bad? Kane's situation was identical, short of him holding out. How did that turn out? He was traded when Chevy got what he felt Kane was worth. That scenario did nothing but strengthen this teams resolve, and players perception of how things are run! Posted w/ Grumpz D-vice It's bad because the next guy, let's say it's Ehlers, says trade me or I'm sitting out. In his mind he thinks back to the Trouba situation and says to himself, this is great, I get to go where I want for any reason I specify, and the team doesn't even get hurt because they'll just backfill my spot with someone else. Win-win. But that's not the reality. The team is hurt badly. GM cannot draft and develop a winning team by swapping players they scouted and chose to draft to fit into our system for players another team chose to draft for whatever their reasons were. I'm wouldn't say you're wrong at all because I see where there is merit to getting the situation behind you and removing the distraction asap...but I'm also kind of astonished that you think this all makes for a victimless situation and isn't possible if not likely to set a dangerous precedence if you just cave to the demand or do your utmost to accommodate it. Yes and what if the guy we swap for doesn't want to come here because he see's all these young guys wanting out??? Right now Trouba's agent thinks he is playing GM, God, and lets make a deal with any club that will talk to him, think about it, your the GM of the Jets would appreciate him negotiating a deal for you, he pucked you out of a player you like and could help your team and in return, he is trying to dictate who you will get back in return? Puck that, make an example of him set the tone for the organization, the kid probably has lots of big bills and payments to make, when the bank starts calling he may change his mind, do you think his manager will step up and lend him the money.
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Post by TheDeuce on Oct 4, 2016 11:54:53 GMT -6
I'll also throw out there that Chevy and the Jets will earn a great deal of respect if they break Overhardt. Once the first GM does it others will follow and before you know it he'll be as impotent as a WWE referee.
m.
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Post by Tim on Oct 4, 2016 12:15:36 GMT -6
I'll also throw out there that Chevy and the Jets will earn a great deal of respect if they break Overhardt. Once the first GM does it others will follow and before you know it he'll be as impotent as a WWE referee. m. Winnipeg can't afford to flinch or show weakness, other US team can get away with it.
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Post by phillymike on Oct 5, 2016 3:42:29 GMT -6
Boston has apperantly offered up Torey Krug.
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